I don't even know where to begin. On the week the Obama administration seizes dozens of domain names to send a message about copyright infringement they show utter impotence to do anything about Wikileaks endangering the lives of patriots. The leaks also illustrate the world has not changed with Obama's divine intervention. They shine light on the folly of his campaign rhetoric.
There are too many details to detail. There are too many ramifications to ramify. There are too many layers to lay out. Consider this an open Wiki thread.
180 comments:
Is the Wiki Weasel in line for hero status in the eyes of our enemies? Will he be prosecuted by Holder as he is obviously NOT a member of the New Black Panthers?
Will the CIA act as they should and eliminate the Wiki Weasel after some enhanced interrogation? Has Obama put in a Worker's Comp claim?
Time for a surgical strike.
I thought the tea party was the "defender" of the Constitution? Are you suddenly opposed to the 1st amendment? Interesting psychological case study here.
I agree, Jack. This is just more revelations of our treasonous "empire" and government intrusions worldwide.
However, it remains to be seen just where Wikileaks got this material.
jack- Steal and publish confidential documents and access to porn in the public library... yeah, that's what the Founders had in mind.
I am sure President Washington had no secret correspondence, he posted everything in the newspaper. "If you are captured by the enemy, eat this message... but stop and read it in the Towne Square if you want first."
Nice to hear a liberal wanting to undermine diplomacy.
Conservatives, just like to use the word freedom at parades, speeches, but want to kill and torture those who actually practice freedom.
Whistle blowers inside both Corporate America and the goverment need to be protected even when we don't agree.
People with excessive power should feel exposed or the possibllity of being exposed.
Politicans and soldiers should all act as if the world is watching because they maybe.
Along the same lines the political campaigns should be toned down to the world view not Fox viewers or Moveon.org.
The liberals unite to protect the "rights" of terrorists and spies... terrorists and spies AGAINST the United States, of course.
"Along the same lines the political campaigns should be toned down to the world view not Fox viewers or Moveon.org."-POV
Never has opinion been more perverse than the liberal's "thoughts". The First Amendment was mainly to protect free political speech. Our Constitution protects "We the people.." not foreign terrorists and spies. Eliminating those people IS defending the Constitution.
POV- "Politicans and soldiers should all act as if the world is watching because they maybe."
You are a giant wussy.
It is useless to attempt to reason with Liberalproverbs18:2 and Jack. They not only support terrorism, they may very well be terrorists, at least in the fantasy of their own minds. With Liberalproverbs18:2 support of pedophilia, one would shudder to think about his fantasies.
This was an act of espionage. It benefits foreign powers that wish us harm. Therefore, those that perpetrated this act should face the consequences. This would be a firing squad or hanging in the days of our founding fathers.
To say these spies are protected by the first amendment is so ludicrous that one has to wonder if those that put forth that proposal are not accomplices in their own minds.
Guy
" It benefits foreign powers that wish us harm."
It embarrasses American officials but how does it benefit foregin powers?
The next Wikileak is going to expose the banking industry if I heard correctly.
You conservative just don't like being informed.
Jack,
Check out Article 3 Section 3 of the Constitution. It will mean more if you do it yourself.
"It embarrasses American officials but how does it benefit foregin powers?"-POV
If you can't figure this one out on your own, you don't want to.
Nonny,
I don't agree with your premise but to the extent you believe what you wrote then why hasn't Obama changed it? Didn't he say he would?
BTW we do know and have known where the info came from. It was one of the 3 million who had access, 22 year old PFC Bradley Manning. He is in solitary confinement.
HD
Very few of the documents have been published.
How do you know the unpublished documents won't show the American Military is little more than mercenaries for very rich and oppressive Saudi and neighboring governments?
What don't you want to know?
Lets let more of the documents become public and see if the taxpayer money and lives being spent on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are viewed by the decision makers the same in private as in public.
Now I do think Karl Rove outing CIA agent Valerie Plame came very close to treason and was far worst than this as it was done out of spite and did nothing to inform the American people.
"Now I do think Karl Rove outing CIA agent Valerie.."
Liar.
Lib,
What Sark said.
One of the interesting things was Arab countries pleading with us to take out Iran much the same as they did with Sadaam Hussein.
HD
"One of the interesting things was Arab countries pleading with us to take out Iran much the same as they did with Sadaam Hussein."
My point is made here. Why should America lives and treasure be use for the oil rich Arab countries interest? Is the American military now a mercenary force?
"My point is made here. Why should America lives and treasure be use for the oil rich Arab countries interest?" -LiberalPOV
It is in the world's interest to stop a nucular Iran but don't worry Obama has no plans to do anything about it.
HD
Fear is always the tool of war mongers. Don't be so quick to join the herd.
Most Iranians are very pro western and very good people, hell most even liked Bush. Lets don't mess that up.
Time is on our side.
Lets hope some Iranian or North Korean will share some reality with Wikileaks.
Reality and truth are a bad things.
Liberalproverbs18:2 gets very upset at the though to anything being done to his terrorist heroes. Reasoning with him is useless, particularly on this issue or that of pedophilia.
Good point, HD, about Obama. But he and his "change", like Bush, are controlled by the same powerful groups.
Again, who or whatever is the real source, the material reveals, and should reveal to the American people, the foul record of the evil that our government has degenerated into over the span of many decades, which is, no doubt, very embarrassing to both sold-out parties, to say the least.
Below should read
Lets hope some Iranian or North Korean will share some reality with Wikileaks.
Reality and truth are not bad things.
Guy
Did you have some thoughtful comment you would like to make?
Try this Think then Post, Think then Post.
We'll work on logic for you in the next lesson.
HD
You may chose to delete my post November 30, 2010 11:06 AM and Guy's Post November 30, 2010 10:49 AM as neither add to the real discussion and both are petty.
I will try to resist such responses in the future or may want to delete such personal attacks with no substance.
Guy
"Liberalproverbs18:2 gets very upset at the though to anything being done to his terrorist heroes. Reasoning with him is useless, particularly on this issue or that of pedophilia."
Please demostrate to the readers the Guy logic required to feel confortable using such wording when you don't have a reasoned and factual arguments to debate the issue others are commenting on?
Below are the two comments in front of this insult.
Liberal POV said...
HD
Fear is always the tool of war mongers. Don't be so quick to join the herd.
Most Iranians are very pro western and very good people, hell most even liked Bush. Lets don't mess that up.
Time is on our side.
November 30, 2010 10:23 AM
Liberal POV said...
Lets hope some Iranian or North Korean will share some reality with Wikileaks.
Reality and truth are not bad things.
November 30, 2010 10:28 AM
Liberalproverbs18:2
All one has to do is to review your constant support of terrorists and of those wanting to help open houses of prostitution featuring underage illegal aliens to understand what I had to say about you. You can't run from your comments.
You apparently do not understnad the meaning of thoughtful, reasoned, or factual.
I am guessing cross dresser
Isn't Assange accused of rape? It fits that the liberals would support him, just as they did Bill Clinton.
Guy
It was a right wing videographer who wanted to open houses of prostitution featuring underage illegal aliens then edited the video to attack one of the few voices of America's poor communities all paid for by billionaires wanting more political power.
How about that false chain email you posted yesterday?
Conservative like you are so gullible.
The videographer was working a sting operation that worked. It cost ACORN its government funding when the videos showed how ACORN was trying to help circumvent the law and aid with the establishment of of the houses of child prostitution. You defended ACRON heavily so it is only logical to believe that you approve of pedophilia.
I have not posted a false chain email to the best of my knowledge. Look up the story and publish it if you think it is false. However, you will need to give credit to the publication and the author instead of plagiarizing as you usually so. Besides, your taking credit for anything said would not help your case.
Sark, Did you catch the headline of your rape article? Interesting choice of words.
Anonymous,
I think you're right about both parties and the unseemly side of world politics. It's like watching sausage being made. However, I would not say our government is evil. It's a dangerous world and would be much more so without America.
Guy
"I have not posted a false chain email to the best of my knowledge"
You're caught again being gullible to right wing propaganda lies.
"Q: Did Michelle Obama make $317,000 a year while working part-time at the University of Chicago Medical Center?
A: This allegation in a chain e-mail is wrong: Obama’s reported income was $103,633 in 2007, the year she reduced her work schedule to part time."
"The anonymous author of this chain e-mail expands upon an opinion piece from the conservative National Review and gets the facts wrong in the process."
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/michelle-obamas-salary/
Some people will fall for anything.
November 29, 2010 9:40 AM
I am not defending this gentleman personally. I am pointing out another hypocrisy within the tea party. The Constitution is ravenously “defended” and cited at every turn......except when it’s not. Except when you don’t agree. Except when it hurts your argument. Well done.
1st Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
I didn’t see the word “except” when reading the 1st amendment.
What law are you referring to?
"I am pointing out another hypocrisy within the tea party." -Jack
Tea party????
In summary: The Swedish rapist has a right under the U.S. Constitution to free speech which includes publishing classified information that endangers American soldiers.
Does this make sense to anyone besides Jack?
Speaking of making sense to anyone but Jack, does anyone regard this episode as partisan one way or another? I really don't see it that way and have not seen it represented that way in the MSM. Maybe I missed it.
I think Jack just wants to disagree for the sake of disagreement.
HD
"The Swedish rapist has a right under the U.S. Constitution to free speech which includes publishing classified information that endangers American soldiers."
I havn't seen that case made did I miss something?
Do you really want the governemnt to be able to hide any and all documents and misbehavior behind a classified information stamp?
You may be to young the remember the Daniel Ellsberg Pentagon Papers exposing the lies of Vietnam War.
http://www.ellsberg.net/
Do you really want a free and open society?
Do the Americans in uniform really fight for FREEDOM or the interest of Capitalist?
Do you really want a free press?
HD and Sark
You and Sark use the term " The Swedish rapist " but is it true or an attemp to discredit and strick back at Wikileaks?
HD if your going to manage the Blog you should make some attemp to get the facts right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhqj-gx-P6w&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSgcDHtOXy8&feature=related
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=%22The+Swedish+rapist&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzaDtt5VGuw&feature=channel
POV- Please note: My link on the rape accusation says the case was re-opened. I think your links are before the case was re-opened after being dropped. No matter, it is a news story and is from the Huffington Post, and the guy was accused of rape.
Wouldn't it be weird if after the insult you threw at HD, it turns out that all your links were old and before the case was re-opened (my link). Meaning the links you used were obsolete, but you still used them. Goes hand and hand with your "Chenney outed Plame".
"Speaking of making sense to anyone but Jack, does anyone regard this episode as partisan one way or another? I really don't see it that way and have not seen it represented that way in the MSM. Maybe I missed it."
HD - Great point. For the liberal posters here, I refer you to this article at the New Republic (liberal) titled, "Why Wikileaks is Bad for Progressive Foreign Policy." Just because we conservatives here think a certain way doesn't necessarily mean you liberals HAVE to take the opposite view -- that shows limited thinking on your part.
http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cohn/79483/wikileaks-round-iii-will-it-matter-much
jack- Your comment about Conservatives and the defending the Constitution would only be ironic to others with the same misconception as yours.
Is it not the responsibility of Congress to try PFC Bradley Manning for Treason and order his execution?
Or, at the very least, he should be brought to trial for either sedition in the 1798 Alien and Sedition Acts, or espionage and sedition in the 1917 Espionage Act.
As for the Swedish guy, not much we should be able to do about him, unless Obama wants to authorize the CIA to throw him a 647 grain, AR-50 party from a half-mile away.
;)
Mike D,
(Sorry to everyone else for this - saw that Mike was on)
Thanks for the kind words and invitation on the other thread a while back. Will you make some sort of announcement if you do a barbeque?
Mike D
;)??
"Is it not the responsibility of Congress to try PFC Bradley Manning for Treason and order his execution?"
Really? You want to make free press and freedom of speech punishable by death if it offends the military or the political leadership?
Where the case for treason?
The video of an American Helicopter gunship killing a journalist caring a video camera and a street full of Iraqis including two children in a van should have been censored and the person with the moral courage to make it public should be executed?
Conservatives are freedom loving people?
The PFC can and will be tried under the UCMJ. The military takes as deadly serious the handling of classified documents. If the UCMJ cannot justify a death sentence, life at hard labor will have to do.
I could go either way... life at hard labor or death is fine.
As for the Wiki Weasel, he should be bumped off and his ear sent to his parents as a keepsake.
POV- Have you had time to research your links regarding the Wiki Rapist? Will you announce it if you find your links were obsolete and in fact the rape case has been re-opened? Will you apologize to the blog for insulting HD erroneously?
The WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange, is tonight facing growing legal problems around the world, with the US announcing that it was investigating whether he had violated its espionage laws.
Assange's details were also added to Interpol's worldwide wanted list. Dated 30 November, the entry reads: "sex crimes" and says the warrant has been issued by the international public prosecution office in Gothenburg, Sweden. "If you have any information contact your national or local police." It reads: "Wanted: Assange, Julian Paul," and gives his birthplace as Townsville, Australia.
"HD and Sark
You and Sark use the term " The Swedish rapist " but is it true or an attemp to discredit and strick back at Wikileaks?
HD if your going to manage the Blog you should make some attemp to get the facts right."-POV
OK POV you take it from here. Please feel free to use my original link rape
in comparison to your possibly obsolete links in question.
Honest:
You say you do not believe our govnernment is evil. I say it has and does engage in evil. Our government no longer respects and obeys the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
You say the world is better because of our presence. I beg to differ. We are no longer a republic as our Founders intended. We have become an ugly brutal empire that preys on its own people as well as other innocent people worldwide.
Wikileaks revealed this horrible truth.
As Dr. Paul so eloquently and truthfully said
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.”
Nobody,
Count on it! When Spring springs, I'll start looking for a good date, and I'll set up an email account just for the BBQ.
I wonder if Sark could hop in his robber baron, oppressed billionaire private jet to fly up here?
:)
My bad, I should have said Australian rapist. Sorry.
I guess I should admit I was being purposely provocative by assuming the guilt of Assange on the rape charge. Rape is a serious charge that can ruin innocent lives with only the accusation. However, the guy is a weasel and I'd like to see his life ruined. Sue me.
Mike D.,
I'm in, assuming I'm welcome.
Anonymous
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.”
Having spent a lot of time on here making fun of the Tea Party Mob, I now give you credit for thinking, something seldom done by the conservatives posting here and making an excellent post.
I'm an Obama supporter but I support the constitution, freedom and a free press far more.
Freedom means the government must act with transparency if the citizens in a democracy are to make informed decisions.
Anonymous,
I disagree. There is a difference between being evil and engaging in evil. I say that without conceding the evilness of our actions. I can't argue with your assertion about the Constitution and Bill of Rights but that's a broad subject.
Where I adamantly disagree is with the assertion that we are an empire or that the world is not safer and better with us. For some reason I don't feel the need to argue that point with you and can agree to disagree with respect.
I just wish I knew which Nonny you were.
HD
You don't find it the least bit odd the rape charges come with to release of the sensitive documents embarrassing world leaders?
If the charges are false and being used to silence Wikileaks do you find it morally wrong?
H.D.,
I wouldn't have it any other way!
You don't find it the least bit odd the rape charges come with to release of the sensitive documents embarrassing world leaders?-POV
Come on POV, look at the guy... his pic screams bodies hidden in the basement.
Hillary Clinton, Julian Assange said, "should resign." Speaking over Skype from an undisclosed location on Tuesday, the WikiLeaks founder was replying to a question by TIME managing editor Richard Stengel over the diplomatic-cable dump that Assange's organization loosed on the world this past weekend. Stengel had said the U.S. Secretary of State was looking like "the fall guy" in the ensuing controversy, and had asked whether her firing or resignation was an outcome that Assange wanted. "I don't think it would make much of a difference either way," Assange said. "But she should resign if it can be shown that she was responsible for ordering U.S. diplomatic figures to engage in espionage in the United Nations, in violation of the international covenants to which the U.S. has signed up. Yes, she should resign over that."///
Here ya go lpov and Jack.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/11/30/interpol-issues-arrest-warrant-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange/
Don't give me any crap about it being a faux news article,
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/11/30/sweden.interpol.assange/index.html?hpt=T1
That's one from Commie New Network.
Guess your boy is also a pervert besides being a terrorist.
Y'all have the nicest friends.
Again, I’m not defending Assange. I’m defending the 1st amendment. Shall we tackle other amendments with Sark’s “yeah, that's what the Founders had in mind” argument? That could be fun.
By the way, if I accuse Sark of rape.....can we call him a rapist? I mean, he was accused. I guess there’s no 6th amendment in the tea party constitution either.
Jack,
I don't understand why you are talking about our 1st Amendment.
1) Our Constitution does not provide free speech rights to foreigners living abroad.
2) PFC Manning used his position within our military to collect information about the military leadership of our country, during wartime, then transferred that information to foreign entities to help our enemies.
You may believe that 'espionage' and 'free speech' are synonymous, but I do not.
You may believe that our Constitutional Amendments grant rights to every being on Earth, but I do not.
Which is it?
Do basic human rights cease to exist because of international borders?
"Do basic human rights cease to exist because of international borders?" -Jack
There you have it, "espionage" is a "basic human right".
HD
We've seen a pattern of conservatives going insane over the second amendment and caring less about any of the others.
We've seen a pattern of conservative thinking the human rights issues in the American Constitution of habeas corpus, free speech, religion only apply to white Christian Americans and do not apply to other human beings around the world.
You conservatives have little or no history of the Magna Carta from 1215.
How are citizens to make informed decisions if they are misinformed?
You want to make free press and freedom of speech punishable by death if it offends the military or the political leadership?
Where the case for treason?
The video of an American Helicopter gunship killing a journalist caring a video camera and a street full of Iraqis including two children in a van should have been censored and the person with the moral courage to make it public should be executed?
Conservatives are freedom loving people?
"By the way, if I accuse Sark of rape.....can we call him a rapist? I mean, he was accused. "-jack
Being one who has howled at the moon on more than one occasion, and have run with the wild bunch from L.A. (Lower Alexandria), rode as a "friend" of the MC Club 'Renegades' Northern Virginia in the Sixties, and attended Happy Hour at Gilley's have NEVER been accused of rape and don't know, personally, anyone who has been.
Go back and review ALL the things you (the Left) called President Bush, with not even an indictment, THEN you can complain.
Sark, they are going to complain in any case. It is all the left knows how to do. Those that support terrorists and the enemies of their own country such as Jack and Liberalproverbs18:2 will, of course, complain of anything done to protect it.
Liberalproverbs18:2 whee was Ms. Obama's income reported? Was it done with the same accuracy as Rangle's tax returns?
Guy Faulkes- It is amazing how the two here come to the defense of sharing classified documents with countries wanting to destroy us. I'll bet Soros pays for the Wiki Rapists legal bills for the US charges, if any.
POV is already yelling, in effect, "He was framed by the evil CIA!" jack says the Wiki Rapist is a champion of the First Amendment. I guess if Robert Hanssen had just published the stolen documents on the internet, instead of handing them to his Soviet handler, he also would be a champion of the First instead of serving out his life sentence.
"Do basic human rights cease to exist because of international borders?" -Jack
Jack,
I don't understand why you are talking about our 1st Amendment.
1) Our Constitution does not provide free speech rights to foreigners living abroad.
2) PFC Manning used his position within our military to collect information about the military leadership of our country, during wartime, then transferred that information to foreign entities to help our enemies.
You may believe that 'espionage' and 'free speech' are synonymous, but I do not.
You may believe that our Constitutional Amendments grant rights to every being on Earth, but I do not.
Which is it?
Mike D
"You may believe that our Constitutional Amendments grant rights to every being on Earth, but I do not."
I believe your ancestors are Jewish, You of all people should understand defending human rights of ALL people and its importances to ALL human being Jewish, Muslims, Christian or Atheist. Why would you not be at the front of the line defending human rights?
The American Constitution does not cover the human rights of the people of Gaza but it does require Americans to respect the Human Rights of the people of Gaza and all over the world especially when we are the ruling power as in Iraq or Afghanistan. People aren't granted basic human rights they are born with those rights every where.
Basic Human Rights whether, frees speech, freedom from slavery, Freedom from torture or basic health care belong to all human beings around the world.
What's your case for treason?
The video of an American Helicopter gunship killing a journalist caring a video camera and a street full of Iraqis including two children in a van should have been censored and the person with the moral courage to make it public should be executed?
Why would you want this?
Liberal POV,
I am not addressing the particulars of the video, nor am I addressing whether what occurred in the video was just. I am addressing the simple concept of a soldier who has sworn an oath to defend his country stealing classified material and delivering it to the enemy during wartime to undermine his own country. In my book, that is espionage at best, treason at worst.
My, how times have changed since "Loose lips sink ships", when the entire population was urged not to give any information on troop behavior to the enemy. Now releasing classified internal documents is acceptable, in your eyes?
Tell me, Liberal POV and Jack. Do you think the Taliban is actually better than the United States, or are you just so intent on knocking the United States down that you don't really care how bad the people are who do it, as long as someone does?
Specifically, to answer your question, Liberal POV ("What's your case for treason?"), see above:
"a soldier who has sworn an oath to defend his country stealing classified material and delivering it to the enemy during wartime to undermine his own country." - Mike D.
Nice to understand that you equate our fight against the Taliban to NAZIs exterminating Jews. That is crystal clear insight into your view of my country.
Jack and Liberal POV,
It's curious that even as you demand attention to the right to free speech, you take full advantage of that right to assault the soldiers who have protected that right for your entire lives.
This is what is known as 'befouling one's nest'. In more common terms, it is called 's#!*%ing where you eat'.
Mike
Not sure I comprehend all of those last three rants?
"a soldier who has sworn an oath to defend his country stealing classified material and delivering it to the enemy during wartime to undermine his own country."
I thought it was delivered to the world media?
"Tell me, Liberal POV and Jack. Do you think the Taliban is actually better than the United States"
Do we really win if our society and military commit similar acts of torture and civilian killings as Al Qeada?
Should the American people know the reality of the wars their leaders choose to spend taxpayer money and the lives of low income Americans on? Should they see the pain inflicted on non combatants in the wars by BOTH sides?
You want censorship?
The American people already have a very distorted view of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. How many of you have ever seen multiple children dead and others screaming in pain, missing limbs from an Ameriican bomb? Think because you didn't see it on Fox it didn't happen?
The rest of the world has been watching such horror for six years.
How much filtering do you want?
The soldier that leaked the documents is a traitor. Being a traitor is a capital crime. LIberalproverbs18:2 and Jack should send flowers to his funeral. Dot. Period.
The Wiki Weasle is an enemy distributing information to terrorists that would harm this country. He is no better than they are as he is providing intelligence for them. He deserves the same fate as any other terrorist. Jack and Liberalproverbs18:2 should be buying more funeral flowers. Again, end of story.
Guy,
The Wiki Weasel made the Ruskies look bad and they're pissed. It will not end happily.
Mike D and Conservatives
If we can stop the whistles blowers with the death penalty at what point will corporate leaders, politicians and military brass come forward to inform us the citizens of their misdeeds?
How many more deaths will take place as we wait for them to see their own bad decisions or corruption?
The people that make truth available are not the villains, those that order or commit misdeeds are the ones who really cost the lives when the enemy is energized by injustice or cruelty. The enemy in most case already know the acts took place.
Guy
Make the case of treason.
The people of Wikileaks gave the world al candid look at world politics.
How was Al Qeada assisted?
LiberalProvebsq8:2, he leaked top secret government documents of his country to foreign posers while serving in his country's military services. Do you not even know what treason is, you idiot?
Here is the definition. Get someone to explain them to you.
treason
–noun
1.
the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2.
a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
3.
the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
Lib, I know you are not very well educated, but your comments are becoming embarrassing. The excuse is wearing thin.
Liberal Socialist sheep POV said:
"People with excessive power should feel exposed or the possibllity of being exposed."
Funny, you didn't feel this way about ACORN whey they gave the ok to prostitute underage children. Then again a pedophile such as yourself would Want underage children sold into sexual slavery without being "exposed" or having the "possibllity" of being exposed. LOL!!
Tough questions, tough questions...
Your ole pal
Johnny Rico
Liberal Socialist Sheep POV said:
"Do you really want the governemnt to be able to hide any and all documents and misbehavior behind a classified information stamp?"
No we don't but you goons do. How come we aren't privy to an of Hussein Obamas school papes, medical records or birth certificate. The Supreme Court is even saying the Hussein Obama Administration is putting too much material under lock and key.
So how do you defend the Messiah on this one? Or will you turn into a Hypocrite again?
Your ole pal
Johnny Rico
PS The analogies that Faulks is hammering you with must really hurt!! LOL
Guy
He's certainly not guilty of "1.
the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign."
He's not guilty of "a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state."
"the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery."
Is his his trust, confidence to the American people and humanity or the Military?
Nazi guard leaks information to the world about atrocities taking place during World War II concentration camps? Evil trader or humanitarian hero?
What information has surfaced you find so treasonous?
If we can stop the whistles blowers with the death penalty at what point will corporate leaders, politicians and military brass come forward to inform us, the citizens of their misdeeds?
How many more deaths will take place as we wait for powerful decision makers to see their own bad decisions or corruption?
I though just a few post ago you were arguing the government was too powerful?
Freedom is just a slogan to you not to be actually practiced.
Johnny
" The Supreme Court is even saying the Hussein Obama Administration is putting too much material under lock and key.
So how do you defend the Messiah on this one? Or will you turn into a Hypocrite again?"
I'm not its you conservatives defending the governments rights to hide misdeeds behind a stamp of classified or secert.
You're the ones opposing freedom of speech and free press.
We are? And you aren't doing the same thing by defending ACORN or to keep secret Hussein Obama's birth certificate, school records, and other public artifacts that should be made public? Explain, please.
Your ole pal
Johnny Rico
PS I doubt you will explain because your hypocrisy is so outsized it will get in the way. LOL!!!!!!!!!
I'd say 2 outta 3 is a winner.
"2.
a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
3.
the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery."- Gut Faulkes
It is amazing, the rampant ignorance. An actual whistle blower like the couple that did the ACORN video and exposed the ACORNERS for the heathens they are, are not whistle blowers, and the theft and publication of classified documents by a soldier- is not.
Sark
What information has surfaced you find so treasonous?
If we can stop the whistles blowers with the death penalty at what point will corporate leaders, politicians and military brass come forward to inform us, the citizens of their misdeeds?
How many more deaths will take place as we wait for powerful decision makers to see their own bad decisions or corruption?
I though just a few post ago you were arguing the government was too powerful?
Freedom is just a slogan to you not to be actually practiced.
pardon me, "...and publication of classified documents by a soldier- is whistle blowing.
POV- I can see where you are coming from.
YOU would rely on a single PFC's ability to decide what documents should be released to the public, JUST as you would vote for a candidate for President with a PFC rating.
No experience required...
I must apologize to anyone that has a mental handicap for calling liberalproverbs18:2 an idiot. An idiot has a mental handicap that is not his fault and cannot be controlled.
Liberalproverbs18:2, on the other hand, while he may be lacking in intellect, can control what hes says. His double standards that reveal his hypocrisy prove this.
I should have used a word that meant despicable, lying, hypocrite and cultist, not idiot.
Again, my apologies to any idiots offended by being compared to Liberalproverbs18:2.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder if Liberalproverbs18:2 has not done something in his support of terrorism that would also earn him a cigarette and a blindfold. Do you suppose his support has merely been verbal (which he has a right to do) or has he physically or financially aided terrorists?
Johnny
You and Guy are just misinformed on ACORN by the attack of the powerful billionaires with their edited video misleading you into believing the lie.
You were conned something that happens to Guy often as he's so gullible.
" But in at least six of the eight heavily edited videos produced by O'Keefe and Giles and distributed by Andrew Breitbart, either the activists did not clearly tell the ACORN employees that they were planning to engage in child prostitution; or the ACORN employees refused to help them or apparently deliberately misled them; or ACORN employees contacted the police following their visit."
"Three separate investigations cleared ACORN workers of any criminal wrongdoing, and a December 22, 2009 report by the Congressional Research Service stated that California and Maryland criminal laws may have been violated by the undisclosed taping done by O'Keefe."
"Many of the seemingly crime-encouraging answers were taken out of context so as to appear more sinister, sources said."
" O'Keefe and his cohorts withheld video that directly contradicted what they said the videos showed"
"O'Keefe pleaded guilty to misdemeanor criminal charge of entering Senate office under false pretenses. As reported by The Times-Picayune on May 26:"
"James O'Keefe, as leader of the group and famous for posing as a pimp in ACORN office videos, received three years of probation, a fine of $1,500 and 100 hours of community service.
http://mediamatters.org/research/201009290035
POV- I know you have never considered the term intent, but when one puts classified documents in a position to be read by the world, in the world there are enemies of the US, so his intent was to allow our enemies (some we are in a shooting war with and some a cold war) this information. He gave aid to the enemy. Hang him. Maybe you can attend the hanging and hold a candle while singing Kum ba yah, My Comrad, Kum ba yah
Guy
It's a simple question.
What information has surfaced you find so treasonous?
If we can stop the whistles blowers with the death penalty at what point will corporate leaders, politicians and military brass come forward to inform us, the citizens of their misdeeds?
How many more deaths will take place as we wait for powerful decision makers to see their own bad decisions or corruption?
I though just a few post ago you were arguing the government was too powerful?
Freedom is just a slogan to you not to be actually practiced.
Liberal Socialist Sheep POV said:
"Three separate investigations cleared ACORN workers"
Might these have been the same "investigators" who cleared the Black Panther from any wrongdoing outside the Philly voting booth? He surely didn't do anything wrong as it was whitey fault for being white, right? That video was probably "edited" also!
LOL
Stings don't it?
Sark
"Hang him"
Pol Pot would have loved to having you in his army as would Augusto Pinochet.
Liberal Socialist Sheep POV,
How is it (for the tenth time) that you find a Private First Class in the Army who stole documents he was not privy to and then turned those documents over to a foreign national a whistleblower? Does this mean Aldrich Ames or FBI Agent Hanson were merely whistleblowers and not criminals who dealt devastating blows to national security? Releasing ANY classified documents without permission from a superior is treason via providing support or comfort to the enemy. The Army PFC that did this is indeed guilty. You claim to be a veteran (we now know this to be a lie), so you of all people should understand the UCMJ and the implications for releasing classified material. LOL!!!!!
Now that the documents have been released, what do you have to say about YOUR Hillary Clinton and the negative spying she had State Department Officials conduct on foreign diplomats? Talk about an overreaching government - Hillary really did some negative things that will hurt our relations that Hussein Obama tried so hard (laugh) to build. What have you to say about that? LOL!!
This ought to be fun
Your ole pal
Johnny Rico
Dinah
Tough questions, tough questions.
Your ole pal
Johnny Rico
Johnny
Just giving you the real facts but I sure you will prefer your racist version.
Johnny
"Hillary Clinton and the negative spying she had State Department Officials conduct on foreign diplomats?"
Is this something the world should know?
Liberal Socialist Sheep POV said:
"Is this something the world should know?"
You mean her spying on foreign diplomats? No, it is not something that anyone should know anything about. The reason is because it is classified and illegal to dissiminate.
I see you have dodged all the questions in the typical blithering style that stupid socialist sheep such as yourself use when defeated. LOL!!!
Your ole pal
Pamela Rizzo
Johnny Rico
PS So what do you think of YOUR Hillary now?
Executive Order 13526 is distributed to all Federal Employees and military personnel for the express purpose of preventing unauthorized disclosure of classified material.
Furthermore, Hussein Obama himself on December 29, 2009 released the following statement on the above mentioned E.O.:
"This order prescribes a uniform system for classifying, safeguarding, and declassifying national security information, including information relating to defense against transnational terrorism. Our democratic princiiples require that the American people be informed of the activities of their govt. Also, our Nation's progress depends on the free flow of information both within the Govt. and to the American people. Nevertheless, throughout our history, the national defense has required that certain information be maintained in confidence in order to protect our citizens, our democratic institutions, our homeland security, and our interactions with foreign nations. Protecting information critical to our Nation's security and demonstrating our commitment to open Goverment through accurate and accountable application of classification standards and routine, secure, and effective declassification are equally important priorities."
Now, Socialist sheep POV fluffer, what you are saying is in direct contrast with your messiah. Who is wrong, Hussein Obama in the above statement or your garbage pertaining to "whistleblowers" as up call the traitors?
This ought to be interesting....
Your ole pal
Johnny Rico
Robin Greer
Stings don't it.
Johnny and Conservatives
"Who is wrong, Hussein Obama in the above statement or your garbage pertaining to "whistleblowers" as up call the traitors? "
Neither.
Obama, the military and the State Dept. must have some confidentiality to conduct the nations business but whistle blowers also have a moral responsibility to fellow human beings to expose extreme incompetence, corruption, crimes and injustice without facing the death penalty.
Now I do know the video released showing the needless killing two children and a street full of unarmed Iraqi citizens including a news journallist appeared to be totally unnecessary and an out of control military.
With the volume of information released I'm sure the military will find something to make a case with but it won't be the death penality or treason.
"whistle blowers also have a moral responsibility to fellow human beings to expose extreme incompetence, corruption, crimes and injustice without facing the death penalty." - Liberal POV
A quarter of a MILLION secret communiques... this, to you, is targeted exposition of extreme corruption? My god, man... what has happened to your brain? A quarter of a MILLION private messages!
This parasite didn't object to some horrible order he was given and blow the whistle. He collected every iota of secret intelligence he could find and handed it to a source he knew would share it with our enemy and our allies during wartime.
Look, I understand that your job here, in this forum, is to represent a position and stand behind it no matter what. But there are limits when even I come to the conclusion that you are either being intellectually dishonest, or you must be insane.
On WataugaWatch, I am frequently the bearer of dissenting views, but I am always true to what I consider intellectually honest. I do not fake my perspective to further my objective. Ever.
To not accept that stealing a quarter of a MILLION secret files from our military, as a soldier, and sharing those files with our enemies and allies in order to undermine our moral authority constitutes espionage and perhaps even treason is intellectually dishonest. In my heart, I do not believe that you believe what you are saying here.
POV is thinking the PFC read all the classified material and decided which ones to expose. This is why POV should be under a guardian's care and not be allowed to vote. He has not the ability to discern.
Mike D
You still have not made the case for treason or shown where AlQaeda was given damaging information not already known.
This information was released to the press. All I've heard of so far is embarassing actions and comments but no earth shaking information and little not already known or suspected.
I don't know what may be contained within the documents as it's not all been made public.
I did post earlier with that volume of information the military should find something to make a case for something but not treason.
What's your opinion of the video of the killing of the journalist, the two children and a street full of unarmed Iraqis? Does this show an out of control military or at least a flawed process costing lives? How many times did this type action get repeated?
Skip the attacks on me and make your case for treason.
Conservatives
How important is it to have public servants or employees with the courage and morals to expose extreme incompetence, corruption, crimes and injustice of powerful military brass, corporate leaders, Politicans, judges and police without facing the death penalty?
Do you really want to stop all whisle blowers?
POV- The case was made. You missed it, imagine that.
Sark, Mike D
"As for the Swedish guy, not much we should be able to do about him, unless Obama wants to authorize the CIA to throw him a 647 grain, AR-50 party from a half-mile away."
"Is it not the responsibility of Congress to try PFC Bradley Manning for Treason and order his execution?"
Just a few weeks ago the tea party mob and the Republicans were screaming about the government of jack boot oppression without citing any examples now we have the same small minded mob demand the government excute two individuals for exersising freedom of speech and freedom of press.
Maybe PFC Bradley Manning is guilty of something but not treason.
Now the Republicans want more power for the government. Which is it less power or more power? More freedom or less freedom?
Liberalproverbs18:2 has once again been shown to be not only incorrect, but but unable to provide a cognoscente argument supporting his ideas. Everything he says gets shot down, every time he says something. It is amazing. How can anyone be so wrong? He has to be a plant just being used to stimulate conversation. On one can be serious about the ideas he puts forth.
Liberal POV,
You may have missed it the first two times I posted it, so here it is again, to answer your question:
"a soldier who has sworn an oath to defend his country stealing classified material and delivering it to the enemy during wartime to undermine his own country." - Mike D.
You keep saying that PFC Manning leaked the information, not to our enemies, but to the press. I can assure you, at trial, that the term 'reasonable expectation' will come up. Did PFC Manning have a 'reasonable expectation' that the secrets he stole would fall into the hands of our enemies? Any jury in the country would say yes.
So, will you accept that your question has been answered? Or will you just rant once again about oppressed billionaires, robber barrons, and Vorlon ambassadors, then ask the same question again, pretending that it has not been answered? Once more, just for clarity, your question and my answer:
"You still have not made the case for treason " - Liberal POV
""a soldier who has sworn an oath to defend his country stealing classified material and delivering it to the enemy during wartime to undermine his own country." - Mike D.
Guy
I see you're stumped once again left only to rant without real debate.
Which is it less power or more power? More freedom or less freedom?
Yes Liberalproverbs18:2, you have stumped all of us by being consistently wrong and either unable to realize or admit your error. Your continuing La La La La La chants of talking points with no factual support or original arguments are sure to do the trick.
As I said before he has to be a plant. No one would take him seriously. He cannot really be this stupid.
Admit it Blogger, you are really POV stirring the pot, aren't you.
Guy
More ranting no debating, no ideas, no vision and no thinking, just what ever what Rush and Glenn say.
As we have proven many times, the normal occurrence is for the conservative members of this blog to be discussing a subject long before it appears on Rush or Glen. Liberalprovebs18:2, if he is real, cannot relate to this because all he ever uses is talking points from his political masters. I have never heard him disagree with them as we do with Rush, Glen, Shawn, and each other.
Mike D
"You still have not made the case for treason " -
Show the information released that aided AlQeada you may know something I haven't seen or heard about?
All I've seen is embarrassing candid comments or the reality of world politics.
Do you consider the video of the Americans gunning down the journalist, two children in a van and Iraqi men in the street one of those or is this news the world should know?
Guy
How important is it to have public servants or employees with the courage and morals to expose extreme incompetence, corruption, crimes and injustice of powerful military brass, corporate leaders, Politicans, judges and police without facing the death penalty?
Do you really want to stop all whisle blowers?
Comrade POV, in your goofy helicopter gun down video, was it the intent of the US Military to shoot down a journalist/cameraman whatever, or was it collateral damage in the fog of war? Did it happen during Obama's term and should he be executed for it?
We are not talking about whistle blowers. We are talking about traitors.
Guy
"We are not talking about whistle blowers. We are talking about traitors."
Who get to apply the term traitor? Those exposed?
Anyone that cares to. Public opinion and a military court will both decide if the term is correct. This PFC needs the death penalty.
Sark
"Comrade POV, in your goofy helicopter gun down video, was it the intent of the US Military to shoot down a journalist/cameraman whatever, or was it collateral damage in the fog of war?"
Most likely it was the fog of war but the American public needs to see the ugliness of war especially one the US Government chose to start and what it means to the citizens of the country we invade. They need to see what their tax dollars are buying.
Innocent citizens are not only killed by AlQeada or Sadam's Military.
The American media has filtered far to much from the American public.
The Arab world has seen a far different reality than what the American people have seen on FOX or CNN.
"Innocent citizens are not only killed by AlQeada or Sadam's Military."-POV
Intent you moron... intent.
My apologies to morons everywhere, I should have used the term America hater as morons have no control.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/04/2007-iraq-apache-attack-as-seen-from-the-ground/
Here is an interview I found.
Nice! Good shootin'!
Sark
"Intent you moron... intent. "
The difference to dead or their family is? Look and listen to the video, to the soldiers firing the lives on the ground had just become targets little more. Unfortunately that's what war does.
Reader
Thanks for posting.
"Ethan McCord had just returned from dropping his children at school earlier this month, when he turned on the TV news to see grainy black-and-white video footage of a soldier running from a bombed-out van with a child in his arms. It was a scene that had played repeatedly in his mind the last three years, and he knew exactly who the soldier was."
"I don’t say that Wikileaks did a bad thing, because they didn’t…. I think it is good that they’re putting this stuff out there. I don’t think that people really want to see this, though, because this is war…. It’s very disturbing."
Liberal POV,
If cameras had filmed the suffering of the civilians of Berlin as we bombed their city indiscriminately, and bleeding heart MSNBC pundits aired it for the general public while commenting on the vicious American military personnel and how only ignorant hicks could even consider supporting such monstrous behavior, I doubt we could have won WWII.
The US Military, as it now fights, goes to greater extremes to avoid civilian casualties than any fighting force in the history of human civilization.
Ask the Georgians how careful the Russian Military is to avoid civilian casualties when they attack.
So, as I answered your question, please answer one for me. I know you are not a good and evil, black and white kind of person. Well, ok, I suppose when you get to choose the bogeymen, you are very much a good and evil fear monger, but for the sake of the question, I'll leave a 100 point sliding scale for shades of grey.
So here it is. On a scale of 1 to 100, 1 being completely harmless and 100 being the worst possible threat, how do you rate two different fighting forces, the US Military and the Taliban, in terms of the threat they pose to your image of how the world should be?
In my world, the US military gets a 10 and the Taliban gets a 75.
How about it? I answered yours, now you answer mine, please?
Mike D
"On a scale of 1 to 100, 1 being completely harmless and 100 being the worst possible threat, how do you rate two different fighting forces, the US Military and the Taliban, in terms of the threat they pose to your image of how the world should be?"
I will go with your numbers over all, but within both groups you could have individuals or units with very good or very evil leadership reversing the numbers for the smaller unit. The Mi Lia Massacrer in Vietnam comes to mind.
Having whisleblowers helps end such leadership when it exsist within the American Military.
Mike D
"If cameras had filmed the suffering of the civilians of Berlin as we bombed their city indiscriminately, and bleeding heart MSNBC pundits aired it for the general public while commenting on the vicious American military personnel and how only ignorant hicks could even consider supporting such monstrous behavior, I doubt we could have won WWII."
That was a war of nation against nation we're not fighting such a war now nor was Vietnam or more of the recent wars.
We are currently losing the war with Al Qaeda because most people are still thinking like you.
I posted this on another thread and it went over the heads of posters here.
Mao's strategy:
"But by avoiding decisive tests of strength and waging guerrilla warfare, the revolutionary forces in China could defeat and weaken the enemy in smaller battles and, through a protracted process, gain popular support, increase in strength and numbers and extend their control. Mao said it was necessary to pursue a strategic policy of protracted warfare in the countryside to gradually bring about a change in the unfavorable balance of strength. And to carry this out Mao developed many different principles of guerrilla warfare like: “When the enemy advances, we retreat; when the enemy halts, we harass; when the enemy tires, we attack; when the enemy retreats, we pursue.”
The Japanese military never figured out how to win against this and neither has the American military.
http://www.countercurrents.org/onesto130808.htm
Al Qeada is using the above strategy on us as we blog. We are bankrupting America chasing men on donkeys with a billion dollars worth of equipment.
Issues like Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, or the rape and killing of the 14 year Iraqi girl and the killing of her family, the reaction of fear media and conservatives to the New York City Mosque are why their numbers and movement continues to spread. Wikileaks only reporting the reality not making the policy.
Our media and those on this blog help Al Qaeda by hyping and spreading fear. AlQaeda wants extreme fear, over reaction and brutality to civilians in the ocupyed country.
Read this strategy again and where it says China insert AlQaeda and remember we have no real strategy other then providing targets. They will try to provoke us to send the American military to other parts of the world.
"by avoiding decisive tests of strength and waging guerrilla warfare, ( INSERT AL QAEDA ) could defeat and weaken the enemy in smaller battles and, through a protracted process, gain popular support, increase in strength and numbers and extend their control"
People, there is not use talking with Liberalproverbs18:2. Once again he has demonstrated he holds his country and the troops that sacrifice to give him the freedom to spew forth his hate in disdain.
He has every right to expound on his despicable opinions. However, if it is ever proven he physically or financially helped his terrorist heroes or a foreign power against this country, he should be imprisoned, exiled, or executed.
By the way, the Japaneses military had Mao whipped. The battle of Midway was the start of the defeat of the Japanese. It took nuclear weapons dropped by guess who to defeat them.
You do not know any history do you? No wonder you flunked out of community college. Most of these institutions do a wonderful job in the field of education. However, a person has to be willing to learn and not chant La la La la La all the time in order to do so.
Guy
Sorry that went over your head.
Please explain the strategy you believe is being used to end the spread of AlQaeda type extremist around the world and how that is working?
I have told you what should be done before. Make the act of terrorism so costly that your heroes will not commit it. Do whatever it takes. Kill them. Destroy their compounds, homes, business, etc.. Bury them with pigs. Whatever it takes. When someone like your heroes learn there is no place safe for them and that they will inevitably pay in a manner they cannot tolerate, then they will quit. They have opened the door to violence. They do not get to complain about how much cmes through the door.
Not much is being done and It is not working out under the former Muslim Obama( according to his school records and maybe former is the correct term. Who knows?) We are going to have to get a Commander in Chief instead of an apologist for this country's greatness. This may take two more years or impeachment may bring it about sooner. Even that incompetent Biden would be better Obama. Obama has not been incompetent in his efforts to destroy this country.
Now cry an little and chant La La La La La for me. You say the same drivel over and over and over. You ask the same questions over and over and over. BORING!
If you like our enemies so much, would you consider being an undocumented worker in Iran, Iraq, or Afghanistan? I doubt it. You want the freedoms you are given in this country by the sacrifice of of those you despise. How long would you last if you were disparaging of our enemies in any of those countries and were not heavily protected by our military. I would venture to guess not very long.
Yeah, why doesn't the Wiki Rapist release Obama's well hidden school transcripts? Shouldn't we have the right to know just how stupit he was then too?
Guy
You're the kind ingornant American AlQaeda is counting on to grow it's ranks and totally bankrupt America, fighting rumer and a hand full on real terrorist on donkeys with a trillion dollar military.
HD: If PFC Bradley Manning was the source of the leaks, and he's in solitary, one can only assume he'll be tried for committing some type of crime. As such, what's the point of engaging further in any type of wikileak conversation?
Military and CIA leaks have occurred before, and the sources have been discovered, captured, tried and sentenced. The same thing will happen now.
I really don't think anyone here has suggested that Americans have the right to steal and disclose critical, classified information. If they have, they're wrong.
Is there any evidence showing that our government has ignored this leak and refuses to prosecute any American citizen involved?
Call me silly, but I just don't understand the hubbub here.
Silly
Anonymous, I do not think you are silly. I think you are ignorant or apathetic. Does this traitorous act not concern you enough to understand why people want to discuss it?
I am the kind of American AlQaeda fears. You on the other hand are the type they love as you are their ally.
"I really don't think anyone here has suggested that Americans have the right to steal and disclose critical, classified information."-Anonymous
Might I suggest you read jack's comments and Liberal POV's comments. Call me silly, but I believe their comments reflect just the opposite of what you are indicating.
Sark
I won't speak for Jack but think its also true for him is I have defended freedom of speech and also the need for some protection for whistle blowers.
I don't think the young soldier is guilty of treason and should be executed as those here say they believe.
I still haven't seen the case for more than political leaders being embarrassed by their conduct or words. IInformation may still be out there showing him a real threat or there may be information out their that make him more a hero.
The government's job is to protect REAL national security information and It's the free press's job to expose incompetence, crimes, corruption, injustice and failures within the government using any source possible including whistle blowers inside government and corporations.
Where're the freedom loving, flag waving conservatives against repressive government?
Lib, why didn't you copy and paste the rest of what McCord said in the link I posted? There were weapons. They didn't know there were children in the van...and who in their right mind would take their children into a battle zone to begin with? Wonder what McCord's unit really thinks of his statements?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the CIA kill people for a living? Someone needs to tell Assange this...and Manning best be happy he's sitting in a cell.
Reader
This?
"Then I got yelled at by my platoon leader that I needed to stop trying to save these mf’n kids and go pull security…. I was told to go pull security on a rooftop. When we were on that roof, we were still taking fire. There were some people taking pot shots, sniper shots, at us on the rooftop. We were probably there on the roof for another four to five hours."
"McCord: My platoon sergeant knew that I was having a hard time with it and that same night … he came into the room and he told me, hey, just so you know, both of the children survived, so you can suck it up now."
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/04/2007-iraq-apache-attack-as-seen-from-the-ground/
" The soldier in the video said that your husband shouldn't have brought your children to battle, but we are acknowledging our responsibility for bringing the battle to your neighborhood, and to your family. We did unto you what we would not want done to us. "
"the value of our nation's leaders no longer represent us. Our secretary of defense may say the U.S. won't lose its reputation over this, but we stand and say that our reputation's importance pales in comparison to our common humanity. "
http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/5966/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=2724
Should the American people see this reality of war?
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/04/whistleblower-report-leaked-video-shows-us-coverup/
POV- You may be new to the knowledge that war is hell, but most are already aware.
As you are impressed by Mexicans being able to tell if a chicken's eyes are clear tells its freshness, we have refrigeration now... eye contact not required.
Anonymous,
The "hubbub" to me goes beyond the espionage/treason aspect although that's pretty significant as noted. Much of the information is about our treatment and opinion of other leaders. That has shattered trust. 3 million people had access to these correspondences and it was a lowly PFC smuggling out the info on a Lady Gaga CD. That shows incompetence. Then there is the fact that it's business as usual (even more usual than usual) despite the promise of change. There are many layers of hubbub as alluded to in the original post.
HD
"That has shattered trust. 3 million people had access to these correspondences and it was a lowly PFC smuggling out the info on a Lady Gaga CD. That shows incompetence."
This is one of the few valet point made from the conservatives. What should have been done to prevent?
I'm still reserving my judgement as the whether PFC Manning did something courageous or did something very foolish and damaging to America's interest.
I will say this after nine years of war the American people need to be informed as to whether we've made AlQaeda weaker or stronger. Has the investment in lives and tax dollars paid off?
PFC Manning may have done the world a great service forcing a large dose of reality and candor onto the world stage.
You ducked the comment about AlQaeda strategy of waging its war against the west.
I suggested what we have done so far is played into their over all stradegy.
(post December 2, 2010 10:11 PM )
What do you under stand the American stradegy currently to be?
How should we change it?
Liberalproverbs18:2, yes, you have suggested we capitulate to your terrorist heroes. You are wrong as usual.
Fortunately most people are not traitors, either physically as with the PFC or morally as with you. At least I hope you are only a traitor in your mind and that you have not physically done anything to harm this country or its troops.
Guy
You chose a personal insult to that of applying logic and answering the questions which requires you to think for a change. Are you up to a little thinking?
What do you understand the current American strategy to end Al Qaeda's power and influence on the world?
After nine years of war do you believe its working?
Is AlQaeda's strength and numbers different today than in 2001?
Has the investment in lives and tax dollars paid off?
Have we and do we continue to play into their over all strategy?
How is the Al Qaeda strategy different from the stradegy used by Mao against the Japanese or the Viet Cong used against Americans?
I'm sure Guy won't be up to the task of answering any of the above but how about HD, Blogger or Nobody?
"We are bankrupting America chasing men on donkeys with a billion dollars worth of equipment." - Liberal POV
More like:
"Donkeys have been bankrupting America while billions of dollars of equipment sit idle, waiting for business owners to have confidence that their taxes will not be raised so they can hire workers."
Mike D
Cute, Try to keep it simple so the Republicans can get excited.
Want to engage with a little thinking by answering the above questions?
What do you understand the current American strategy to end Al Qaeda's power and influence on the world?
After nine years of war do you believe its working?
Is AlQaeda's strength and numbers different today than in 2001?
Has the investment in lives and tax dollars paid off?
Have we and do we continue to play into their over all strategy?
How is the Al Qaeda strategy different from the stradegy used by Mao against the Japanese or the Viet Cong used against Americans?
Liberalproverbs18:2
How can telling the truth about you be a personal insult. If you do not wish to be considered a traitor, then stop being one.
Guy
Truth is not something you know well, much the same as the words justice and ethics all seem to be missing from your education.
The above post is an example of missing ethics.
The above poster is an example of a pedophile who will put children in danger rather than confront an UNETHICAL organization like ACORN. LOL!!!! Truth hurts don't it.
Those who would choose a traitor over their countrymen is a traitor himself. When you posed as a Vietnamn Vet, that in itself was traitorous. Is there a level you won't stoop to? Child prostitution and spitting on veterans is pretty low.
Your ole pal
Johnny Rico
Thanks, POV,
Yeah, that was pretty clever, eh? I thought you might like it.
Concerning your questions, many have been answered, and some cannot be answered without clairvoyance and a crystal ball.
However, as you repeatedly ask your barrage of questions, I wonder what you think would be a more effective alternative, without going back to the British explorers who carved their names in the sandstone of Egyptian monuments in 1815.
What practical solution would have an immediate negative impact on Al'Qaeda?
Would you invest in some donkeys?
Would you become much more brutal?
Would you capitulate and pretend that we want to be friends?
Would you allow Sharia courts?
Would you surrender our forces to show you mean business?
What would you do?
It's easy to say "I would end our dependence on foreign oil", but would you give up your car, as I did over a decade ago?
Mike D
You failed to try to answer the question.
I have another for you why do conservatives get so pissed at being ask to deal with our realities that this is not 1945 America, Rambo was just a movie and we will have no Hollywood ending to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"Would you become much more brutal?"
No, the Russians tried that as did Bush, Chenny and Rumsfelt we still have not recovered from those blunders as we have lost the support of locals and Muslims around the world. Al Qaeda is now stronger than on Sept 11,2001.
Obama has changed little of the overall Bush Chenny doctrine and when he has tried he came under strong criticism from the right.
I do believe Al Qaeda is using the strategy of Mao and the US Military no counter strategy other than to win the next battle but not decrease Al Qaeda power and influence.
"Would you capitulate and pretend that we want to be friends?"
No! They will continue attacks around the world trying to force western powers to engage them on the ground of they're choosing as in Afghanistan or Somalia.
The American media and politicians hyping fear works to their advantage.
"Would you allow Sharia courts?"
This is a silly question right out of a Glenn Beck bullshit hour. How gullible you conservatives can be is amazing.
"What would you do?"
Face the realities, stop doing what's not working after nine years, stop charging into their strategy. Look at the corrupt allies we're supporting in the middle east.
I'm sure someone at the war college has a plan being pushed aside because it doesn't call for large use of military hardware, fuel, occupation and the things that make military contractors rich.
Certainly eyes in the sky need to track known AlQaeda and strike with force when the opportunity presents itself.
If they take control of a nation state shut down the state, cell tower, power grid airport , bridges oil exports but don't remain as targets and occupiers.
If that fails to work recognize its not working and move on to a new strategy but have some strategy for success.
Get the American public to understand this is a war and terrorist attacks will likely happen just like hurricanes, tornado, floods and auto accidents but we'll survive and national panic is not an option find courage and go about your day to day life.
"It's easy to say "I would end our dependence on foreign oil", but would you give up your car, as I did over a decade ago?"
This has to be a national policy with public transportation cheap, convenient and a complete infrastructure change taking decades but could be the next economic engine creating jobs and reversing the Walmart economy.
Conservatives don't live in a world of reality.
Liberalproverbs18:2, Mike D correctly pointed out your questions have already been answered. You continue with your La La La La chant. You are the person that never answers questions.
You are so BORING! You can't even come up with different talking points. Go back to your political masters for some new material since it is impossible for you to have an original thought.
Guy
Not only can you not think or reason but it appears you can't read.
Have your wife read my answers for you.
When I said you had no vision, I didn't mean eye site.
"It's easy to say "I would end our dependence on foreign oil", but would you give up your car, as I did over a decade ago?" - Mike D.
"This has to be a national policy with public transportation cheap, convenient and a complete infrastructure change" - Liberal POV
Sooooo, would you give up your car, or just ask the government to force others to give up theirs?
"Al Qaeda is now stronger than on Sept 11,2001."
Where is your proof for this statement?
"If they take control of a nation state shut down the state, cell tower, power grid airport , bridges oil exports but don't remain as targets and occupiers."
Holy Crap! Do you realize the PAIN you will inflict on the innocent population? Do you realize the BURNING HATRED this will cause? Didn't we try embargoes on Iraq and Hussein for 11 years to no effect and were essentially blamed for misery caused by the embargoes. Now you would, as a solution, go in and shut down the electric power grid, cell towers and infrastructure? I'm glad you finally attempted to answer a question -- it demonstrates that you have no working solution either.
Mike D
"Sooooo, would you give up your car, or just ask the government to force others to give up theirs?"
You get a gold star for giving up your car, but until we have far better bike lanes and trails, better public transportation and more pedestrian friendly towns and cities it not practical for most Americans. That shouldn't stop us from moving in that direction.
Now address the real questions.
What do you understand the current American strategy to end Al Qaeda's power and influence on the world?
After nine years of war do you believe its working?
Is AlQaeda's strength and numbers different today than in 2001?
Has the investment in lives and tax dollars paid off?
Have we and do we continue to play into their over all strategy?
How is the Al Qaeda strategy different from the stradegy used by Mao against the Japanese or the Viet Cong used against Americans?
So you finally admit Al Quaeda is using the tactics of Mao and the Vietcong to kill and terrorize the innocent to gain political power for themselves. You as a supporter of these people, must then approve of these tactics. This is not surprising.
Mao did not overcome the Japanese. We did with nuclear weapons. Mr. Johnson and his fellow progressives did not allow the military to win the war in Vietnam. We fought a defensive war. You cannot win without taking the fight to the enemy. The man child Messiah has yet to find this out.
Guy
The man who only thinks he knows history.
When you make up your own facts it called fiction not history.
Did Mao's Red Army take control of China?
Did the US withdraw from Vietnam as did the French?
What do you understand the current American strategy to end Al Qaeda's power and influence on the world?
After nine years of war do you believe its working?
Is AlQaeda's strength and numbers different today than in 2001?
Has the investment in lives and tax dollars paid off?
Have we and do we continue to play into their over all strategy?
How is the Al Qaeda strategy different from the stradegy used by Mao against the Japanese or the Viet Cong used against Americans?
Liberalproverbs18:2
Mao took control of China by overcoming Chian Kia Shek, not the Japanese, you dolt.
We did withdraw from Vietnam as we were not allowed to fight an offensive war. We were limited to the defense as you would handicap us now. Your methods will result in our defeat.
Yes Al Qaeda is less powerful now than it was in 2001. This is in spite of our military periodically being held to the defensive. Notice we won after the surge. Also notice the failure of your terrorist heroes to commit another successful attack in this country, much to your chagrin. After all, you are on their side. So yes it works when we go on the offensive. It is when we try to placate our enemies as you desire that we lose ground and spend needless lives and treasure.
The Al Qaeda strategy will work only if we allow those such as you to undermine the will of the country as the progressives and media did during the Vietnam era. They cannot defeat us. Second columnists such as you might.
You have not grasp of history at all while continuing to claim you do. When are you going to admit this is something else of which you have no knowledge or training?
I am still waiting for you tell us the name of the community college you flunked out of. You will not embarrass them. After all, they did not let you graduate.
Guy
Do you have supporting evidence or is this opinion you wish to present as fact?
Please post something that supports your opinion.
Liberal POV,
To answer your questions broadly, I do not believe our tactics against Al'Qaeda have been particularly effective. If I were in charge of the fight, I would be doing it completely differently. My plan would be extremely effective and would not cost a single life. Curious?
Mike D.,
"Curious?"
I am (not that I doubt you).
HD,
Too sleepy right now, but I'll write it all out over coffee in the morning.
I have plenty of sources. These sources are called an education. Do a little studying Liberalproverbs18:2. It is possible that you might learn something, although rather doubtful due to your ineptitude in being able to understand and retain facts. I would suggest you start with Goggle and the various issues we discussed. I am tired of doing your work for you. However, I will give you one link to get you started because you may not know the issues we are talking about. You do have information retention disorder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek
If you did some research on issues before you speak about things of which you have no knowledge or training (as you have admitted you do), you might start looking a little less foolish.
Still waiting for the name of the community college you flunked out off. You brought up the subject of education. It is only fair we know about yours as you asked about mine.
Well, at least we now know how Julian Assange came up with his company's name.
Guy
I'm not sure what you wanted to prove with your link? It seems to support my own POV.
"In 1945 when Japan surrendered, Chiang's Chongqing government was ill-equipped and ill-prepared to reassert its authority in formerly Japanese-occupied China, and asked the Japanese to postpone their surrender until Kuomintang (KMT) authority could arrive to take over. This was an unpopular move among a population that, for many, had spent more than a decade under often brutal foreign occupation."
"In December 1936, Chiang flew to Xi'an to coordinate a major assault on the Red Army and Communist Republic that had retreated into Yan'an. However, Chiang's allied commander Zhang Xueliang, whose forces were to be used in his attack and whose homeland of Manchuria had been invaded by the Japanese, had other plans. On December 12, Zhang and several other Nationalist generals kidnapped Chiang for two weeks in what is known as the Xi'an Incident. They forced Chiang into making a "Second United Front" with the Communists against Japan. Zhang was placed under house arrest and other generals who had assisted him were executed. The Second United Front was nominal at best and was all but broken up in 1941."
"However, Chiang did not like the Americans, and was suspcious of their motives.[28] The American OSS (forerunner of the CIA) showed an interest in a plot to seize control of Chiang's regime. Chiang ordered the plotters executed.[29] Chiang felt no friendliness towards the United States, and viewed it as pursuing imperialist motives in China."
"Chiang also differed from the Americans in ideology issues. He organized the Kuomintang as a Leninist style party, oppressed dissention, and banned democracy.[31] Chiang completely ruled out democracy as impossible for China.[32]
"
You missed the point, Liberalproverbs18:2. You said Mao defeated the Japaneses. I just proved he did not. You lied.
Do I need to post a link of the Japanese surrender, you dolt?
Chaing Kai Shek was in many ways similar to McCain. He was communist lite just as McCain was Liberal lite.
Now how about stopping dodging the question of the name of the community college you flunked out of?
Guy
" You said Mao defeated the Japaneses. "
Would you cut and post where that was posted?
What was said was:
"The Japanese military never figured out how to win against this and neither has the American military."
Meaning The Japanese military had to continue to commit more and more resources and personel to China as Mao's forces continues to grow stronger.
Your lack of historic knowledge maybe you lack of reading ability.
Mike D
" My plan would be extremely effective and would not cost a single life. Curious?
December 6, 2010 6:35 PM
"Too sleepy right now, but I'll write it all out over coffee in the morning."
December 7, 2010 12:15 AM
???
Now address the real questions.
What do you understand the current American strategy to end Al Qaeda's power and influence on the world?
After nine years of war do you believe its working?
Is AlQaeda's strength and numbers different today than in 2001?
Has the investment in lives and tax dollars paid off?
Have we and do we continue to play into their over all strategy?
How is the Al Qaeda strategy different from the stradegy used by Mao against the Japanese or the Viet Cong used against Americans?
Liberalproverbs18:2, the Japanese had defeated China, you dolt. It had made China part of the Greater Asian Co=Prosperity Sphere, which was ruled by the Japanese empire. Mao and Chaing both were warlords that were insignificant in the scheme of things. It took nukes to defeat the Japaneses.
You said that Mao was as successful as the North Vietnamese. He was not. To be fair, this may have been caused by the fact he had no help from traitorous second columnists such as you. The North Vietnamese did.
By the way, I am still waiting for the name of the community college you flunked out of.
Guy
So according to Guy's history Mao's strategy had little to do with keeping the Japanese occupied in China preventing them from attacking Alaska more then the one time in 1942.
America's fear of that invasion never materialized but the resistance in China had nothing to do with it?
The Mao stradegy of avoiding decisive tests of strength and waging guerrilla warfare id nothing the US military has anything to worry about because?
The statement below is completely wrong?
"by avoiding decisive tests of strength and waging guerrilla warfare, ( INSERT AL QAEDA ) could defeat and weaken the enemy in smaller battles and, through a protracted process, gain popular support, increase in strength and numbers and extend their control"
Republiacn logic? Its a good thing you fools weren't in office in 1942.
"A Democracy without transparency is not a Democracy"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C-vmlh48xY&feature=player_embedded
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