This blog originally founded by Blogger who holds a theological degree and a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Taught Psychology for 32 years and is now Professor Emeritus. Is a board-certified psychologist and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in his profession. Ministered as a chaplain, and pastored Baptist and Episcopal churches. Publications cover the integration of psychology and theology. Served in the Army, the Merchant Marines and the Peace Corps.

Monday, February 21, 2011

Answer Poll: What Should the Wisconsin Governor Do?

POLL RESULTS FROM What Should the Wisconsin Governor Do?
Negotiate a compromise bill with State Senate Democrats 4.51% (2,616 votes)

Ask Republicans to pull the bill and find another way to cut spending 1.45% (841 votes)

Draw a line in the sand: If you want to keep your job, get back to work -- otherwise, you're fired 93.34% (54,130 votes)



NewGuy said...

1. Have the state criminal investigative division investigate any fraudelent use of sick leave. Compare absences for SL to those who can be identified on the various tapes of protestors. Also investigate ANY medical certificates and take both criminal and administrative action against and fraud which can be proven.

2. If schools remain shut down, declare a state of emergency; place any state employees who are not at work (including legislators) on unpaid admin leave pending investigation. Withold any salary or benefit payments, including medical insurance payments, from any state employees not at work during this period.

I don't know the legalities of the Wisconsin public employee's collective bargaining. I am not opposed to collective bargaining for public employees even though I recognize the problems with union influence on elections etc. A major union leader once told me that it was labors job to ask for whatever they thought they could get; it was managements job to be sure they didn't pay more than they could afford. (private industry)

Unfortunately, in todays short term focused world, too many company 'leaders' (or politicians) are willing to give up benefits when the price doesn't have to be paid until years down the road...then it's someone elses problem.

I have given the collective bargaining part of the Wi issue a great deal of thought. I haven't reached a firm conclusion but I am leaning toward believing that they should have consultation/bargaining rights but no right to binding arbitration or right to strike.

Maybe negotiate a package and put it before the legislature for a straight Up or Down vote?

The mess Wi, and many other states, are in today is because it was too easy for previous politicians to give ground on benefits when the cost wouldn't show up until they were long out of office.

Anonymous said...

I beleive in the right to work. If you do not want to belong to a union, then you should not have to do itto be able to get a job. If you want to join a union, then fine, but be aware someone else might want your job if you decide you do not want to work and strike.

No one makes you work They can't force you to do so. What makes you think you are in total control of your employment? All you will do is force jobs out of the country.

NewGuy said...

If I may clarify a point. I said I didn't know the legalities of public sector bargaining in Wi. That is because government employees in general are not fully covered under the National Labor Relations Act. Federal employees are given limited bargaining rights by Executive Order: state employees, as far as I know, are covered (or not) under state labor laws.

Another point, which I have made on previous threads - don't be taken in by the "issues" here...this fight isn't only about the issues, it's about the winning over of the electorate in preparation for the 2012 elections! So far, the public seems to be siding with the governor....In spite of Obama's attempt to rally his union base, you will notice that the DNC has backed away from the fight...probably not wanting to risk being tarnished by a loss here.

Great article in today's Politico... try

and, a final thought. Most people in the world think their are two sides in labor disputes. The dirty little secret that the union doesn't want it's members to know, is that there are THREE sides. 1. The company; 2; The employees and 3: the Union. You will notice in this Wiconsin issue that the union has now offered to throw the employees under the have the employee pick up some of the health care and retirement costs. What does the Union want? TO continue to force every employee to pay union dues whether they want representation or not....and, of course, continued right to bargain on "behalf" of the teachers.

Blogger said...

Gov. Walker wears the white hat in this situation. He told the people exactly what he would do if elected. The people elected him. He is doing it. That is the democratic way.

At the same time, there are a lot of black hats in Wisconsin. The Democratic senators debase themselves, their institution, and the democratic process. They are acting like little children who when they are losing, just cheat. The teachers are publicly lying right in front of their pupils. Does their behavior mean that in the future, children can play hooky, then bring in a phony note to be excused? And the sleazy doctors–they have lowered themselves and tarnished their profession.

It is a great day for the sellers of black hats in Wisconsin.

NewGuy said...

Walker is not only doing what he said he would do, he is doing what the UNION said he would do. During the campaign, the union was harping about Walker cutting benefits, etc to state workers.

Apparently the voters didn't see too big a problem with that.

The dems in the state senate should get back to work and deal with the fact that they can't win this issue legislatively. Vote the way they want - turn it into campaign issue for NEXT election and if the voters agree with them, they will be voted back in office. In the meantime, the illegal strike is costing the taxpayers millions!

Walkers move - from Yahoo news:

"MADISON, Wis. – Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker warned Tuesday that state employees could start receiving layoff notices as early as next week if a bill eliminating most collective bargaining rights isn't passed soon.

Walker said in a statement to The Associated Press that the layoffs wouldn't take effect immediately. He didn't say which workers would be targeted but he has repeatedly warned that up to 1,500 workers could lose their jobs by July if his proposal isn't passed."

guy faulkes said...

Some of the people that may lose their jobs may be the doctors that committed fraud. The state board of health is apparently investigating them. I beleive the boards statement is that this is a serious matter.

NewGuy said...

I love this page:


Kevin Yeske, the assistant principal of Lincoln High School in Wisconsin Rapids, allowed students 20 minutes of one of their school days to protest Walker’s budget, and provided two school staffers to supervise the protest.

“I was really impressed with our students,” Yeske told the Wisconsin Rapids Tribune. “They wanted to make a statement, but we want to make sure we don’t do any damage or consequences (to the school day); it was very well done.”

Yeske makes $94,262 in base salary with an additional $35,076 in benefits.

Read more:

How many of the taxpayers in Wi do you think are making appx 130k in salaries and benefits for 3/4 of a year work?

Yep...these guys are really going to win the support of the voters!

Reader said...

NewGuy, I enjoyed it too. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Jesse Jackson is in Madison Wi. He will address students over the school PA system during school hours today.

Who thought this was a good idea?

Blogger said...

When we were kids, the one who could really create a rage in us was the one who, when he was losing, picked up his toys and went home. Without his bat, and without him, we couldn't play any more.

As the Wisconsin senators act exactly that way, I am hoping the people feel that same rage--the little cheating, quitters.

NewGuy said...

As I understand it, the quorum of 20 is only required for budgetary issues....such as the proposed legislation involving teachers pay/benefits, etc.

The senate is NOT required to have a quorum of 20 for other issues...only a simple majority and, they will begin debating other issues later this week or early next. This week, one of the first will be legislation to recognize the Green Bay Packers as Super Bowl winners. I imagine the Dem senators will, if they don't return, be answering questions next election cycle about why they didn't vote to recognize the Packers.

By next week, the legislation should be moving on to other significant bills which the Dems have a interest in defeating. One of them is the voter ID bill, similar (I think) to the one being proposed in NC. It will be difficult for the absentee Dems to stay away and let this bill just pass in their absence.

THey are NOT holding a winning hand here!

Blogger said...

NewGuy "As I understand it, the quorum of 20 is only required for budgetary issues"
Thanks NewGuy. As you can tell, I follow events closely, but these last two posts of yours included a lot I did not know. At the same time, they are things that make me hopeful. Thanks. Right now I am listening on the internet to one of my most admired Christian prophets. He is thinking as I am that this issue being resolved this week in Wisconsin, and Ohio may be one of the most important events in our history. We are living in a pivotal moment and it has to come out right, or we are in serious trouble.

Jack said...

"When we were kids, the one who could really create a rage in us was the one who, when he was losing, picked up his toys and went home. Without his bat, and without him, we couldn't play any more.

As the Wisconsin senators act exactly that way, I am hoping the people feel that same rage--the little cheating, quitters." --Blogger

Funny historical note: Abraham Lincoln and his Illinois political party brethren did exactly that. Read pgs 216-218 starting with the paragraph "This session (the session of 1840-1)..."

Sarkazein said...

ahhahahahaha...Jack thanks for the well deserved laugh. Jack goes all the way back to the Whigs to indict the Republicans. Now that's funny, damn funny.
The Democrats are cowards and cowardice is a characteristic of liberalism.

guy faulkes said...

As the Democrats in Wisconsin and apparently Indiana do not wish to do their jobs, it might be an expeditious opportunity to address items that do not need a quorum be be discussed and passed. These items might help balance the state budget while not being spending bills. Take the issue of illegal immigration and the monies it costs the state. Arizona is addressing this problem now. It would be an excellent time for Wisconsin and Indiana to follow suit.

Other items such as gun legislation and over regulation in areas that effect jobs could also be addressed.

This 'I'll take my ball and go home" tactic by the left may be a Godsend for the right.

NewGuy said...

BLOGGER, You are welcome and thank you for providing a forum for intelligent discussion! I do try to share any interesting tidbits I come across when I am researching some of these issues which interest me!

Guy, I absolutely agree (although I don't know what constitutes a quorum in Indiana).....WI has passed the Green Bay Packers bill in the house...interesting that the State Senator who represents Green Bay might not be on board for the vote in the Senate.

It is POSSIBLE that action may be taken as early as today to move the voter ID bill forward there as well.

This could be a GREAT opportunity for Wi Republicans!

guy faulkes said...

It would be a good time to introduce these bills in Wisconsin and Indiana.

Sarkazein said...

I can tell you, "quorum" is there to keep legislators from being denied a vote, not as a tool to avoid a vote.
I don't care what Party uses it to avoid a vote, that was not the intent of the rule.

Blogger said...

I left out Nobody who also seems to be another of those "great minds who think alike."

We all must be being guided by the same good angels.

guy faulkes said...

The Indiana Senate just approved a bill almost identical to the original Arizona law. Now it goes to the House.

How do you suppose we could get the Democrat Senators to leave North Carolina for a week or two?

Johnny Rico said...

I see the Liberal Socialist Sheep POVs have run away after being bested yet again. LOL!!! The Wisconsin Governor is a hero and should be given a medal for his union busting methods.

Johnny Rico

Blogger said...

The media in Washington is buzzing about a government shutdown. Only the media is blaming the Republicans. In reality, like in both Wisconsin and Indiana, it is the Democrats who are fleeing responsibility. The situation is getting so out of hand, I expect National Geographic to do a documentary on the migratory patterns of fleeing Democrat legislators. Erik Erickson

Nobody said...

I was debating a liberal friend of mine about the Wisconsin thing. He was, of course, cheering on the Democrats that had fled the state, claiming they were "just keeping their principles." I asked him how he would have felt if Republicans in the U.S. Senate had fled to Canada to deny Democrats a quorum in the Senate at the height of the Health Care debate. Would he have felt that Republicans were denying the "will of the people" as expressed by the last election, or just keeping their principles? He couldn't respond.

Sarkazein said...

By Bill Gertz-The Washington Times8:54 p.m., Monday, February 28, 2011

Evidence outlined in a Pentagon contractor report suggests that financial subversion carried out by unknown parties, such as terrorists or hostile nations, contributed to the 2008 economic crash by covertly using vulnerabilities in the U.S. financial system.

The unclassified 2009 report “Economic Warfare: Risks and Responses” by financial analyst Kevin D. Freeman, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Times, states that “a three-phased attack was planned and is in the process against the United States economy.”///

Sarkazein said...

Think Soros... above