This blog,originally founded by Blogger, who is listed in Marquis Who's Who and is a recipient of the Albert Nelson Marquis Lifetime Achievement Award. He holds a theological degree and a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Taught Psychology for 32 years and is now Professor Emeritus. Is a board-certified psychologist and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in his profession. Ministered as a chaplain, and pastored Baptist and Episcopal churches. Publications cover the integration of psychology and theology. Served in the Army, the Merchant Marines and the Peace Corps.

Tuesday, April 5, 2011

Fourth Attempt at a High Level Discussion of Tuition Rise

Watauga Democrat 
Because the issue of higher university costs is locally current at ASU, I am trying to get an informed debate going here.  Anyone who has spent a lifetime in academia as I have, has chewed over the issues.   After three attempts, the level of discourse has been pathetic.

At one point, it was so bad, one reader observing the eruditeness of the comments wrote:   "fascist ahole" is not the kind of rhetoric that contributes to an intelligent discussion but it’s your blog so if you want it to look like a teen-aged jerk in a flame war it’s up to you.”  Beyond that, most of the responses have just suggested students suck it up.

I have submitted that the university is
target rich for cost reductions.   One area, as in Washington, is the bloated and costly bureaucracy.  Another is low productivity.  The first is summarized in the article: 25 WAYS TO REDUCE UNIVERSITY COSTS “The recent explosion in tuition is at least partially attributable to the fact that administrative bureaucracies have ballooned out of control. This trend simply cannot continue as public sentiment over the upward spiraling costs worsens. Colleges need to refocus their mission on providing a quality education at an affordable cost. This requires increases in worker efficiency and a return to a realistic pay structure. These goals can be achieved in a multitude of ways, including the consolidating comparable departments and positions, implementing an incentive-based compensation system, filling administrative roles with students, outsourcing non- education related services and making effective use of technology.”   

The second is in: 25 WAYS TO REDUCE UNIVERSITY COSTS “The incentives for both institutions and faculty need to be altered to reward teaching more and research less. For institutions, this would likely require either their funding from government to be related to teaching loads, or for the reputation of universities to be based on teaching rather than research. For faculty, tenure reform - either in the form of a dual tenure track for teaching specialists, or a limitation of the scholarly work considered during reviews - is needed to reduce the importance of research and increase the emphasis on teaching. Teachers need to spend more time in the classroom if we hope to be able to continue to finance higher education for the masses.”

To our readers: Unless you are someone who worked in higher education, or you studied at least these two articles, or other sources, please butt out of the discussion.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

Butting out here. Leave it to the academic elite

Johnny Rico said...

Blogger is trying to have a high level discussion on the tuition raise issue. POV, honor his wishes or go home. Blogger, I will have something for you tonight. Good thread

Blogger said...

One reader asks is this a Republican approach. This blog is a conservative blog and of course, the opening discussion is a conservative approach. Conservatives ask that before you raise revenues, first look for ways to cut spending. Conservatives also look at the bureaucracies for waste before they look at the face to face workers on the front lines. Unneeded bureaucrats not only sop up money, but they inject inertia into the whole system. Bureaucrats exemplify Parkinson’s law which is “Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion.”

In the Watauga Democrat I see only discussions of cutting costs by cutting faculty–nothing about the two problems revealed in this thread.

Liberal POV said...

One Conservative here ( Wolf ) wants to abolish state supported higher education and privatize at least all universities maybe eliminate all public education.

Do saner Republicans support such nonsense or is sane Republican an oxymoron?

Wolf's Head said...

I'm not a Republican you cracker idiot.

The repubs are almost as bad as you are for stupidity.

Only an idiot thinks that "public education" actually benefits the children.

It benefits the teachers, the unions, the politicians, an political hacks such as Cracker lpov who gets off on using the plight of "education" to further their moronic agenda of socialism.

Johnny Rico said...

College education is historically something people strive for. Those who have undergone "training" at one of our nation's universities have in effect undergone a confidence course of sorts. Although college graduates by no means corner the market on becoming successful, the fact remains a college education embues graduates with a bit of self-awareness portending a saliant potential to achieve goals. As our society has evolved into what it is today, the benefits of a college education remain unchanged. What has changed however, is the belief that everyone is entitled to this training process.

As a nation, we are rapidly losing our self-determination values and work equals success mindset that has served us well over the past two centuries. A segment of society believes a college education is a birthright. Parents who once pushed their children to build an educational foundation befitting a college education, now expect it to be given. As I have expressed many times before, that which is given has no value. It is this mindset of exptectancy, as opposed to self-determination, that beleagures our society.

Colleges and universities were more than ready to prod and fuel the expectancy paradigm of baby boomer parents. College is big business, and empire building is a speciality of theirs that has finally reached critical mass. Colleges, many professors, and administrators push hard to convince the public that a university education is almost a right. They claim a college education is essential to goal fulfillment in life; a theory seriously flawed and maligned with the non-theoretical world.

As colleges continued propogating their empires, they began adding administrative positions. Professors historically took care these administrative issues, or in many cases, had their student interns do the work. As the empires grew, the desire to command an ever larger workforce did too.

Johnny Rico said...

CONTINUED:

Professors, in many cases, no longer take care of administrative issues for the supposed reason that their "staff" will do it thus freeing their schedules for teaching and research. With the research often comes more administrative staff! The ever burgeoning efficacy of the collegiate business model is as unstustainable as is Hussein Obama's spending habits.

And here we are. Today, Appalachian State University, one of my Alma Maters, is making intonations that it may have to raise tuition to cover costs. How about lowering costs first? University officials shy away from proposing staff cuts or placing administrative responsibilites on educators.It is for this reason that I would rather see prospective students eat the cost of ASU's rising costs. Like Capitalism, the market will right itself if allowed to. A decrease in students will see a corresponding decrease in uneeded staff and programs. It is that simple Blogger. That simple.

In having students pay the rise in tuition, perhaps we will see the return to parents and students valuing an education rather than expecting an education. That which is given has no value. Education should remain on a pedestal alongside other things such as freedom, God, the Pledge of Allegiance, and Democracy.

Raise the tuition ASU - your ship will eventually right itself.

Johnny Rico

Johnny Rico said...

One area I decidedly chose not to tread was my taxable income. Using my hard earned taxpayer money to pay for someone else's percieved birthright has serious implications for society. I've beat this dead horse for a long time now. Most of the time I'm forced to do the beating on a level the opposition will have even the slimest chance of processing - a very, very low level indeed!

What I am getting at is the fact I run a company of over 150 employees, all of whom work hard and pay a lion's share of taxes. In my mind, balancing these hard working individuals with the self-expectancy of other individuals doesn't mix. Like many others on this site, I felt it was a clawing, fighting crucible to attain a college education. Paid for every cent of it - emotionally and financially. When you have dreams of not graduating because you forgot about attending a needed class, you most definitely understand the value of an earned education. Sometimes you dread sleeping because of these ultimate nightmares.

After several degrees (currently attending Chicago University, Booth School of Business) it is my firm belief that students must have some value reference in regards to education. My tax money to fund an expected education should never be involved in the value reference. Others have somehow arrived at the very opposite conclusion, however my bet is they have either never completed college, or if they did, they didn't pay for it.

By the way blogger, Saul Alinsky has historic ties to Chicago University, and I've already been into it with one of the professors there over Mr. Alinsky!! Good stuff.

A note of caution - I will more than likely regress back to the lower ranks of deluded and irrational thinking characterizing the left after this thread concludes, but rest assured Blogger that it is for a decent purpose (and it's plain ole fun to watch them squirm).

Hope this helps. What do other's think of tuition hikes at ASU or other institutions? I would like to hear.

Johnny Rico

guy faulkes said...

Other than my previous comment on this issue concerning my agreement with Blogger, I have little to add on this issue. No organization needs more chiefs than Indians.

I would like to make comments on two of our members.

Anonymous, never leave anything to the "academically elite" or any other elite. We have done this for years. The result is the mess in which we presently find ourselves. The only time we get in trouble is when we allow others to do our thinking for us and do not express our opinions. The American people are great because they truly do exemplify a statement made of the Marines at the Battle of Bloody Ridge. "Among the men who fought on Iwo Jima, uncommon valor was a common virtue." (Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, USN, 16 March 1945.) This same statement is as true of the American people politically as it is militarily - WHEN they choose to get involved. Thank God for the Tea Party.

Johnny Ricco, I knew you were highly intelligent and I realize that you like to play with the village idiot, but it is very refreshing when you talk to the adults in the room. I wish you would do it more often.

Blogger said...

JR YOU HAVE BLOWN ME AWAY! YOU NAILED IT! YOU NAILED IT! I am speechless.

NewGuy said...

Great post! I hope we see more of this Johny Rico!

Johnny Rico said...

Blogger and New Guy,

I appreciate the compliments. I will attempt a more mature approach to posting if possible. The truth is, I use (and abuse) so much on this thread because it's a needed release after the rigors of work and acadamia. I write much in support of my company which is emotionally draining. Over the past several years I've come to rely on mental "dumping" and the intense adrenaline thrill of thumping someone in a blog. The povs are like low hanging fruit - just can't pass up the opportunity to eat them for lunch!!! I know I should quit doing this out of respect to other conservative bloggers, but the release is sometimes too great. An effort will be made to take off my bra while blogging - a sure way to tone things down.

Have a good night.

Johnny Rico

Sarkazein said...

Johnny Rico- I find your comments, past and present, in the true meaning of enthious

Sarkazein said...

or enthios, as some would spell.

Johnny Rico said...

Thank you Sark! And yours also!

Blogger said...

JR "The truth is, I use (and abuse) so much on this thread because it's a needed release after the rigors of work and acadamia." Your one post alone, I feel has earned you the right to enjoy yourself on this blog. As a psychologist, I am a great believer in ventilating like you say you do. Have at it and please don't change yourself.

NewGuy said...

Article of interest in todays N&0
News&Observer about the UNC system wide budget cuts...

I always wonder in situations like this if the threatened cuts aren't motiviated by a desire to sway public opinion. The old “Washington Monument” ploy – cut the programs that will lead to the largest public backlash.

I am betting that blogger and Johny Rico could find some 'fat' to trim before having to close the admissions office 3 days a week, or eliminating fire/police positions.

Blogger said...

Dan Soucek called this a "pretty good discussion. Thanks." As you know Sen. Soucek is a member of the Education/Higher Education Committee.