Wednesday, August 24, 2011

There Are Ways Other Than Political to Think of the Illegal Alien Problem

Lib and his ilk want to romanticize the illegal aliens from Latin America.  I don’t.  I lived there.  There are values they bring here that don’t necessarily mesh with ours.  Lib lives with the fantasy they are Christians.  The truth is that most of the campesinos arriving here, have only a thin veneer of Catholicism.  (Pentecostals excepted) 

So what values do they bring?  Hispanics bring
a human warmth in personal relationships–a metaphor of which can be seen in the closing of personal space through the act of abrazar–a behavior that has taken on in this country in very recent years.  They also bring a solidarity of family, which is traditional for rural people everywhere. 

On the other side of the coin, they bring values which are incompatible with ours.  It is a culture of machismo which is irreconcilable to values of equality.  They also have a different history of the value of private property.  Looking at the architecture one observes that before the arrival of Europeans, Indians built their living quarters in a communal way with doors opening wide to the outside.  The concept of private property hardly existed. 

The conquistadors came with a different attitude toward private property–it existed to be plundered.  The metaphor for them was a house built like a fortress to store their ill-gotten gains. Today, this is still the way the architecture is designed. 

Another value is the Protestant Ethic which is in our cultural DNA. That ethic taught us that our work is a vocation, a calling, given to us by God of which we expect to give an account when we see Him.  Campesinos work hard, however, they have learned to do so in order to survive.  There is no value to under-gird them once they learn that in this country you don’t necessarily have to work hard to survive.

Finally, there is the language.  Spanish is a romance language and great for communicating love.  English on the other hand is recognized as a language that people around the world find suited for commerce and technology. 

The bottom line is that in the past when aliens brought their values to this country, they came in such small waves, we could absorb them.  Soon they learned what makes us prosper and they adopted our ways and language.  This time they overwhelmed us so fast and stayed under the radar so long, that we can’t think of these illegal aliens the same as we did aliens in the past.



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50 comments:

Sarkazein said...

Blogger- Your post is right on.
This may or may not relate, but today I had a conversation with an illegal alien from Mexico. Actually I have regular contact with illegal aliens, this being the capital of Mexico.
He was wearing a camouflage cap with sequins on the bill and a big marijuana leaf embroidered on the front. In the middle of the marijuana leaf was a picture of one of the Mexican drug-lords. I asked him who the picture was and he said the name and the area that drug-lord rules. I asked him if the pictured man was good or bad. He said he had lots of money. He said along the border and in California the gift shops are full of T-shirts and caps with your favorite drug-lord pictured on them. I tried getting him back to the fact they kill and behead innocent people... it didn't matter, they were rich. He apparently is in the norm because the other two Mexicans didn't find anything wrong with the hat and apparently the gift shops sell a lot of this stuff.
I told him his hat gives probable cause to detain and search... no problem, he said he doesn't smoke marijuana.
In one comment a leftist will say we are exaggerating the effect of the flood of illegals and in the next comment they say get used to it is going to change our culture and there is nothing we can do about it.
Which is it?

Sarkazein said...

One thing I have found in my vast experience with illegals, especially from SOB, is the only thing important is that the work is done where's my check. There is not the same "this work has my name on it and I am damn good at it". They all call each other Maestro even if they've had only one days experience. Of course there is the rare exception to the rule and mine is a generalization.

Jack said...

How wonderfully ethnocentric.

Sarkazein said...

I should have made it clear to Jack that I was writing about illegal aliens here in the United States.

Jack said...

Stow the ego Sark. I was speaking to Blogger's post, not your simple-minded response.

Sarkazein said...

I also asked a couple of these guys, one around 40 and the other around 30 years old, why are the Mexicans here not organizing to go back to Mexico and take by force their country back. I said, if you are an economic refugee, forced out of your own country, when do you get angry and take it back from the corrupt government and the drug-lords? Really, there was no discussion about it, it was like I was speaking Greek to them.
Mexico has two coast lines, deep water ports, oil, farm land, tourist attractions, a huge work force.... I'd want it back with a Constitution like the country's I had to take refuge in. They have millions of potential troops here.

Sarkazein said...

In the PC liberal world, Jack, what opinions is one allowed to publish?

Jack said...

You don't know what "ethnocentric" means, do you?

Sarkazein said...

You never learn, do you Jack, you pompous ass? If all things are basically equal in the things listed in my comment, then what else can it be creating these economic refugees?
Our (the USA) culture certainly has to be a factor. Are we not allowed to speak of it? If so many from so far away are risking life to get here, might it be what our (the USA) culture has made?

guy faulkes said...

I believe the Mexican were in Texas long before any of your ancestors. - Liberalproverbs18:2

What is your point, dolt? The Hispanic / Indian peoples of Texas also fought to be liberated from Mexico. Many of them died at the Alamo.

These people and their dependents are not illegal aliens. This is like saying that the Caucasians of southern France and Germany should be citizens of this country because there is scientific evidence that people of this ethnic make up may have been in this country slightly before or at least congruently with the Asian peoples that became the American Indians. This is from theories obtained from archeological studies on the types of arrowheads and stone tools these people used used.

There were no illegal aliens until we had immigration laws, just as there were no drug offenders until we had drug laws.

Your logic is racist in the extreme.

Anonymous said...

Blogger, congratulations. Your informed opinion has Williamson's panties in a wad over on the Watch. He is to big of a coward to post something here where he can't censor it.

Johnny Rico said...

We must also not lose site of the fact that illegal aliens from Mexico do not want to share values that make Americans American. Their ancestors didn't die at places like Gettysburg, San Juan Hill, Bellau Wood, Tarawa, Chosin Resevoir, Khe Sahn, or Fallujah. In fact, their ancestors haven't died much of anywhere that I can think of unless you consider Poncha Villa a hero.

Their culture is immersed in lies and corruption. The entire Mexican society is corrupt, from top to bottom, alluding to a values and morals problem. Mexicans are inherent liars for the same reason they are so morally and ethically corrupt.

And the liberals want these folks here in the USA? I can't for the life of me, figure out why. Like Sark, I have encouraged many illegal aliens to start a revolution in their country like we did back in 76. I have came to the conclusion that Mexicans are even more cowardly than corrupt. Why start a revolution in Mexico when your country supports us, gives us jobs, and freedom they often reply. When asked about the anti-government rebels in Chiapas, the typical Mexican doesn't even know that anti-government rebels exist. They could care less.

Deport all the uneducated, corrupt, lying, crime prone, welfare using, entitlement program oriented criminals (illegal aliens) as soon as possible. If you value your morals, principals, and ethics, you better do something fast before they are supplanted by a culture of lies, racism, oppression, corruption, and crime.

Johnny Rico

Sarkazein said...

Jack- How could you not compare the culture of the people fleeing their own country to the culture of the country they are fleeing to and not use ones own (the USA) culture as a standard? That is the problem with political correctness, it causes intellectual dishonesty. Remember the word that you are amongst the few knowing its meaning was coined by a college professor creating a word to negatively describe the thought process of comparing others cultures to ones own culture.

Jack said...

All of this polemic has been said before...about the Irish, Chinese, Germans, Greeks, Japanese, Polish, Italians, etc.

Mexicans and their Latin American brethren are just the latest targets. In a hundred years, who knows, Moroccans?

Sarkazein said...

Jack- There is a resentment of our country (the USA) by the illegals that are here. For the most part, legal immigrants didn't have that resentment. In fact, their (illegals) resentment of the USA, is very much like the resentment you liberals have toward my country.

Sarkazein said...

I haven't been to Watauga Watch except for a couple of times. I read that blogger's comment about this Blogger's post. If he's going to comment on it, which from the looks of the number of comments, he would have plenty of time, why not cut and paste this Blogger's entire comment? That was weird in itself. Both the other blogger and Jack completely ignore the immigration history of our country and assume controlled legal immigration and illegal entry are the same, when in fact, they are the opposite.

G.I.G said...

Jack said...
All of this polemic has been said before...about the Irish, Chinese, Germans, Greeks, Japanese, Polish, Italians, etc.


Jack you omit that the immigrants you refer to came legally. Most came through Ellis Island not by sneaking across a border in the dead of night or hiding in car trunks.

Anonymous said...

Conservatives are opposed to ILLEGAL immigration in any form and by any race, nationality or culture.

Liberals are unable to make any legitimate argument in favor of the illegals breaking the law. So, they always try to turn the discussion into accusations of fascism or racism.

Blogger said...

“So, they always try to turn the discussion into accusations of fascism or racism.” Thanks Anonymous. And even more insidious is that it is their way of stifling free speech. As someone has said “Give me my free speech and I can use it to fight for all my other freedoms.”

Sarkazein said...

Blogger- Stifling discussion of the issue is exactly what Liberals do. Jacks use of the word "ethnocentric" is proof.

Sarkazein said...

Blogger- Another thing that really sets a liberal's head a-spin is religion. For some reason liberals think they know all there is to know about religion and any discussion of it is a waste of time.

Sarkazein said...

Blogger- The saying or phrase saying-- not to judge, I believe, is another thing hijacked by the Left. I think I remember that the Judgement thing means the judging of whether or not a person can enter heaven is left to a higher authority not the judging of another's culture or lifestyle. I'm in over my head here, just something that seems to come up in debate.

Jack said...

"A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices." --William James

Blogger said...

Jack said: “All of this polemic has been said before...about the Irish, Chinese, Germans, Greeks, Japanese, Polish, Italians, etc.”

Jack was there a time when these groups overwhelmed us illegally to the point they forced us to become a bilingual nation? I still submit that our present situation is unique and that you on the left are using political correctness to intimidate us fellow citizens.

You know how you can boil a frog. You raise the heat so slowly until it is too late and the frog is cooked.

And by the way, are you one that does not believe America is exceptional and that our exceptionality can be explained by our values.

Blogger said...

Jack, is it ethnocentric (or worse still as Lib charged, racism) to observe that the rural people of a country are just nominally Catholic–that it has a culture of machismo–that it has a different history of the value of private property–that it has no history of a work ethic like the Protestant Ethic--that its language is a romance language?

They say beauty is in the eye of beholder. The same can be said of charges of racism and ethnocentrism. Psychologists call this projection.

Shakes his head said...

Well, this is one of the most superficial and stereotyped views of Latin America that I've read in a long time. I'm not even going to start on the comments, which betray the worst kind of "I met a ___ once" stereotypes of a large and diverse population.

I'm just going to focus on this one incredibly misguided statement:

"Finally, there is the language. Spanish is a romance language and great for communicating love. English on the other hand is recognized as a language that people around the world find suited for commerce and technology."

Spanish is a Romance language because it is directly descended from Latin, the language of the Romans. The name had absolutely nothing to do with the concept of "romance" and Latin was the language of science and knowledge in Europe for over 1000 years. In fact, most technical terms in English are borrowed from Latin. The fact that English has become the main language for global communication has everything to do with the dominance of the United States and nothing to do with any inherent quality of the language. Spanish is just as capable as English of expressing technical specifications and precise concepts. Just ask the Latin American Nobel Laureates in science, or the many world-renowned architects from the Spanish-speaking world. Using Spanish in no way limited what they were able to do.

That part about language is, I think, the most blatantly misguided statement in the entire post, but the whole thing is full of half-truths and misunderstood notions. It's not hard to believe that you lived some time in Latin America -as I have too- but that does not mean you understand it well.

Nobody said...

Actually, English and the German languages are better suited for technological jargon. Romance languages, with emphases on masculine and feminine nouns and adjectives just doesn't work as well. This story has stuck in my head for the 8 years since it broke -- the French government banned the use of the term "email" from French government ministries and documents in order to "protect" the French language from the incursion of English tech terms. The French preferred "email" to ""courrier electronique." (French, like Spanish, is a Romance language.)

Nobody said...

Meant to include the link:

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2003/07/59674

Sarkazein said...

Skacking Head writes- "...which betray the worst kind of "I met a ___ once" stereotypes of a large and diverse population." Yet know one here has based their opinion on that, much less said it.

Johnny Rico said...

Yack said,

"All of this polemic has been said before...about the Irish, Chinese, Germans, Greeks, Japanese, Polish, Italians, etc."

These were lawful immigrants who immigated legally into our country. They accepted our culture and rejected theirs. I hail from one of the above races, and when my family arrived they forbade speaking their native language because they wanted to fit in so bad. So, as usual, you are wrong in comparing the lying, corrupt, uneducated, racist, and un-patriotic criminals (illegal aliens - mostly from Mexico) with past LEGAL IMMIGRATION.

Your misguided take on criminals (illegal aliens) is polemic.

LOL!! Stings don't it

Your ole pal

Les Moral

Johnny Rico

Sarkazein said...

Pardon me, should read Shaking Head not Skaking Head.

Johnny Rico said...

Shake his Head said;

"the most blatantly misguided statement in the entire post, but the whole thing is full of half-truths and misunderstood notions."

Yeah, your right, the posts by liberal povs and Yack are pretty out there. I have spent considerable time in Mexico and Central America, so I, like you am a subject matter expert when I say Mexicans are corrupt liars, who have a problem with ethics, morals, and values.

Johnny Rico

Johnny Rico said...

Sark,

No problem. I was going to call the idiot "Making Lead", or some such but I figured Blogger might want it on the Vent Page if I did so I won't.

Sarkazein said...

Sociology- Topics may include considering sociology as science, the nature of large- and small-scale groups, social stratification, historical eras and social change, and race, ethnic and gender relations.

I guess in Shaking Head's world Sociology would be verboten.

Shakes his head (again) said...

Nobody, sorry, you're simply wrong - or as a good Anglo-Saxon would say, you've got your head up your a** (all Old English, those words).

German has 3 genders - masculine, feminine and neuter. Old English did as well. Having grammatical gender has absolutely no bearing on expressiveness or precision. I can't figure out what you mean about the adjectives, but Spanish adjectives work pretty much like English ones and I'm not sure how that relates to precision either.

As for borrowing, all languages borrow words to some extent unless they're in complete isolation. French speakers have adopted email and can now use it as they speak French, just as we can use "cul de sac", "rendezvous", "coup d'etat" and "laissez-faire", all words we borrowed from French.

Just to underscore that last point, let me give the origins of some key words from your post:

technological: From Ancient Greek

jargon: from Old French

emphasis: from Ancient Greek

document: from Latin, through Old French

language: from Vulgar Latin, through Old French

incursion: from Latin

Jack said...

^ Now that's good. ^

Sarkazein said...

Blogger wrote- "Spanish is a romance language"... Shaking Head agrees with him-- "Spanish is a romance language and great for communicating love."- Shaking Head.
Then Shaking Head goes on to write- "That part about language is, I think, the most blatantly misguided statement in the entire post, but the whole thing is full of half-truths and misunderstood notions. It's not hard to believe that you lived some time in Latin America -as I have too- but that does not mean you understand it well."
Does Shaking Head think no one is right unless he blesses their opinion?

guy faulkes said...

Why do you care about Spanish? It is only one of the languages spoken by these illegal alien criminals that come from many countries.

Granted most of them are from Mexico and South America, but that is because of the civil unrest in these drug ridden socialist utopias.

Jack said...

Blogger, let’s take your claims one at a time...

“Machismo” can be found in many areas of this country. It is especially prevalent in the South.

The Central and South American Indians lived in a communal way, as did the Indians of North America. This was not a phenomenon contained to the Aztecs/Inca/Mayans.

As for the “Protestant Ethic”, I seem to remember you attempting to push this ideal a few months back, to no avail. What it came down to was that Weber was full of malarky. (Also remember that Weber loved bureaucracy)

I believe your thoughts on language have already been debunked.

As for your claim, “in the past...[immigrants] came in such small waves, we could absorb them.”. Well let’s examine this one. Following a very right-wing estimate, which includes inflated numbers of illegal Hispanic immigrants, the immigration rate was around 4.0 (per 1000 population) during the 2000s

What about the other historical “small waves”, anything around 4.0?
1832-1846: 4.3
1847-1854: 14.0
1855-1864: 5.2
1865-1873: 8.4
1874-1880: 5.6
1881-1893: 8.9
1894-1899: 3.9
1900-1914: 10.2

Thank goodness the US could absorb 82 years of “small waves”.

Oh, and Johnny’s claim “lawful immigrants who immigrated legally into our country...accepted our culture and rejected theirs.”

I guess they left their culture in places like San Francisco, New York, and Chicago. That was nice of them to stockpile their culture like that, so they know where to find it if they feel like leaving.

Blogger said...

Jack, you wrote: ““Machismo” can be found in many areas of this country. It is especially prevalent in the South.” Jack, if you are a southerner, I am willing to bet you don’t try to go macho with your wife.

At the same time, I do appreciate you putting some thought to your rebuttal unlike the arrogant dismissals by others who have not revealed why we should acknowledge they have credibility.

As to the observation I made about attitudes toward private property of the indigenous populations of Latin America, I call your attention to the following: If you have lived south of the border you quickly learn not to admire something in an indian’s home . If you do, no matter how poor they are, he or she is most likely to say “It’s yours.” And, you have to take it or add insult. My point was that in the DNA of the culture comes two types of attitudes towards private property, both of which are foreign to this country. I think my tracing of the roots of all three attitudes passes muster.

As to your chart, I have not been able to find what I am looking for, perhaps you know. At what point in our history did we establish immigration laws and distinguish between legal and illegal?

As to your attack on Weber, I have no way of comparing who is the more credible–the famous Max Weber , or some unknown professor at Wake Forest.

By the way, my life is guided by the Protestant Ethic. Are you saying yours isn't. In that case what is your value of work?

Nobody said...

Shakey,
You spend most of your post arguing against a point I never made -- I think we call that, "setting up a straw man." I never said languages don't borrow words from one another -- English definitely saw an infusion of French words following the Norman conquest and intermingling of peoples throughout history has led to borrowed terms. The point I was trying to make with my link was that apparently the French people preferred the ease of the term email to "courrier electronique," and that the French government, which is concerned about the "purity" of the French language banned the term "email" from government ministries and documents. But if I have to explain the point, you probably still won't get it. Nice of you to turn nasty and insulting, though. It seems to be the liberal way -- insult, demean and ridicule, preferably with vulgarity. And it's Jack's way to cheer on that type of behavior. Latin is definitely the language of the legal profession and classification, but more because the Romans sort of invented the concept of jurisprudence, and Latin works well for biological classification because it's a dead language and has been for over 1000 years. Dead means not currently in usage and, therefore, unchanging. There aren't a lot of Latin terms in modern technological jargon that I'm aware of, perhaps because computers weren't around when Latin went out of usage. Remind me, what is the rule for determining the gender of nouns in the English language (which is a Germanic language)? I can never remember if I should precede the noun with "la" or "le." But you know, maybe you're right. Maybe language isn't a contributing factor, it probably is the result of American and European dominance in technological innovations for the past few centuries, and American leadership in the past 150 years. That is probably the result of our free enterprise, capitalistic system that so many liberals would like to destroy by castigating those who innovate in order to get rich (read Lib's many posts on the rich). I can't think of the last innovative technological breakthrough from China, North Korea or Cuba. Now, Quick! Google some random invention from a command economy to rebut my points. Sputnik's off the table -- we won the space race (and have now abandoned it).

Sarkazein said...

After WW2 English was picked as the language of the international flight controllers. Because most airplanes were being manufactured by English speaking counties. Same with automobiles. Most technology was being done by English speaking countries. If you look up the Spanish words for airplane, automobile, and others, these words are the same in English. Another reason why English is the more technological language. Matters not where the parts of the word originated or were borrowed, they are technological words developed in English.

Sarkazein said...

Same with the word computer... computerdora. It is the English word (no matter its origin), just with an accent.

Johnny Rico said...

I see Yack, like most liberals, loves to go after the Southern White Male. Like Neal Young, we don't need you around anyhow. LOL! Since you and other liberal sheep are into stereotyping and racism, do you sloths realize that most discriminatory laws originated with liberalism as a focal point?

Illegal aliens cost this country far more than they give. They dumb down our schools, fill our prisons and hospitals, and take our jobs. Honestly I can't place more of the blame for this travesty on liberals like you. I place it on RINOs and apathetic Americans who allow it to happen right in front of them. We expect stupidity from tards like you, but this should never occur amongs those who claim to be conservative. Take the RINO County Commissioners for example. Where are they as Watauga County residents lose hundreds of jobs to illegal aliens? Not a peep. Where is Virgina Foxx? I haven't heard a peep from her on this issue, ever.

Not to say that your stupidity Yack should get you off the hook, I'm not saying that at all, only that again we expect your fractured system or morals and values to bubble to the surface.

Yack, I am incredulous that you don't love Rick Perry. He is a liberal like you. I doubt there is anything you and Rhinocerous Rick don't agree on. He believes illegal alien children should enjoy in state tuition rates while American children from outside Texas must pay out of state rates. And he made into law a requirement to vaccinate juvenile females against a type of sexually transmitted disease. A play right out of the ole liberal playbook (Mein Kampf) eh?

You idiots need to take a moment to realize Rick Perry fits your bill even better than Hussein Obama who is so stupid he doesn't know how many states we have. If you want illegals made legal, overnight, then RHINO Rick Perry is your man.

Your ole pal

Johnny Rico

Sydney Shofferd

Sarkazein said...

There may be a Spanish word for unrefrigerated clear-eyed market chickens that we will start using after Obama's EPA cuts off 128 power plants and continues his battle against all things American.

Sarkazein said...

Shaking Head wrote-"Well, this is one of the most superficial and stereotyped views of Latin America that I've read in a long time. I'm not even going to start on the comments, which betray the worst kind of "I met a ___ once" stereotypes of a large and diverse population."

With legal immigration, it is easier for the people in the immigration authority, on our behalf, to look at and pass judgement on the individual, in fact, that is what they do. When a mass group of people enter your country illegally, you have to look at them as a mass group not as a registered law abiding individual immigrant.

guy faulkes said...

Excellent point, Sark. Legal immigrants are individuals that is each a separate case relative to himself. Illegal aliens are gangs of criminals.

Sarkazein said...

Thanks Guy Faulkes. I guess 1 out of 20 will have to do.

guy faulkes said...

No wonder Obama wants to give amnesty to illegal aliens. His illegal alien uncle was just picked up for crashing into a police car while driving under the influence. We all know about his illegal alien aunt. The issue for his is apparently to protect his criminal family members.

guy faulkes said...

him, not his