This blog originally founded by Blogger who holds a theological degree and a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Taught Psychology for 32 years and is now Professor Emeritus. Is a board-certified psychologist and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in his profession. Ministered as a chaplain, and pastored Baptist and Episcopal churches. Publications cover the integration of psychology and theology. Served in the Army, the Merchant Marines and the Peace Corps.

Wednesday, November 9, 2011

A Thoughtful Take on Ohio Election

A Thoughtful Take on Ohio Election

35 comments:

guy faulkes said...

The unions won the fight over collective bargaining the same way Cullie Tharlton bought his seat in the N.C. state house. They brought in tons of outside money and influence.

Most people do not keep up with an issue. They operate on what they hear from adds and the media. If one side outspends the other three to one and has the media on their side, it is hard to defeat them. This has always been a problem for conservatives.

Think about Obama's billion dollar campaign fund that is ironically paid for by billionaires and corporations seeking favor. Frighting, is it not?

Jack said...

What happened to the "will of the people"?

Wolf's Head said...

"What happened to the "will of the people"?" Jack

Will of the people without principles or the rule of law is nothing more than Mob Rule.

Democrats love this because it is easier to whip up division and violence with emotion than to recognize God given rights.

The unions and Occupy Wall Street are merely covetous morons wanting the production of someone else's work by force of government.

Sarkazein said...

One is the "will of the people" to take from others. The other is "the will of the people" to hold the government accountable to the Constitutional. A discernible difference. Good and bad.

Sarkazein said...

should read: Constitution not Constitutional.

Sarkazein said...

Jack- I'll help you with an example:

The "will of the people" at OWS wants the government to take more from others and give to them= Baaaaaad

The "will of the people" at the Tea Party Rallies wants the government to stop taking so much of their earned money and waisting it= Goooooood

Jack said...

Are you suggesting that 61% of Ohioans are a "mob"? Or are you just upset that the "people have spoken" and don't agree with you?

Sarkazein said...

Union mob. We've seen them at work. Looters.

Jack said...

Amazing. I asked about the voters, Sark. The voters. Or have you already forgotten about "the people"?

Sarkazein said...

What, union people can't vote in Jackworld? Union thugs can't lie and can't intimidate and misrepresent?
If all the people in Ohio voted to take everyone's money making $500,000 a year, that is the "will of the people"--- right?

Jack said...

Sark, why are you so angry with the obvious "will of the people"? Why such a turn-around of opinion in just one year?

3,497,408 Ohioans voted on the SB 5 issue.

2,145,042 (61.33%) - No
1,352,366 (38.67%) - Yes

About 10% of the national workforce is unionized. If we apply this to the Ohio voters, there would be about 350,000 union voters. Assuming they all voted and they all voted "No", the legislation still would have been struck down if their votes were not counted.

You can't be a populist only when it's advantageous for you.

Sarkazein said...

"You can't be a populist only when it's advantageous for you."- Jack

Yes I can. And I can be a Constitutionalist and not be an anarchist.
Way to go in using a "national" average in your stats. Good thing their spouses can't vote. I hope Texas wasn't included in those stats. And what percentage of Ohioans voted?

Union contracts being negotiated by politicians and bureaucrats, using money others are forced to pay. We have also seen where union thugs get one day jobs with life time retirements form the people they are negotiating and with other peoples money.

guy faulkes said...

Jack, you seem to forget that the criminal mobs comprised of union thugs and ACORN support and vote for Obama. These voters, Jack, These voters.

Jack, you are a perfect example of the liberal John Wayne was speaking of it the link on the vent page.

Jack said...

Are you suggesting that this vote does not count?

Sarkazein said...

"Are you suggesting that this vote does not count?"-Jack

Jack- If it didn't count, we wouldn't be talking about it.
Your mind is so eaten up with liberalism, you can't even slightly comprehend other's comments.

Jack said...

So the SB 5 vote counts and the people have spoken. To quote RedState

"votes are what count more than statement"

Wolf's Head said...

"Are you suggesting that 61% of Ohioans are a "mob"? Or are you just upset that the "people have spoken" and don't agree with you?" Don't Know Jack

Once again you aren't paying attention to the response or what is really going on.

61% tell 39% they want their stuff JUST BECAUSE! That is not moral or Constitutional, it is a MOB and they are Covetous Morons as stated above, and if they succeed they are thieves and robbers.

Majority does not mean they are automatically right, moral or anything else, just a majority. The Minority still have rights, including the right to property.

When the majority can dictate theft on demand they are criminals and nothing more.

The OWS crowd are just disgruntled idiots, who thought that a $120,000.00 loan to learn animal psychology was a good idea, and the gov't bears culpability for lending them the money for stupid crap.

Blogger said...

Jack asks: "are you just upset that the "people have spoken" and don't agree with you?"

Jack, I am upset because of the unwillingness of the people of Ohio to suck it up for the good of their state. They drove one more nail in America’s coffin. Along with it is the AARP ad that threatens dire consequences to elected officials if they ask anything of them.

These are the rotten spoiled Greeks in the streets of Athens. It’s coming–a harbinger of the end!

Jack said...

"I am upset because of the unwillingness of the people of Ohio to suck it up for the good of their state."

Would you have accepted that same premise a year ago? If someone had said, "I'm upset that voters chose inanity over reason"?

You can frame it however you'd like but the voters have expressed their desire. And the desire is for SB 5 to be repealed.

The people have spoken through the ballot box. And as your role models over at RedState put it:

"votes are what count more than statement"

Sarkazein said...

Jack- You are desperately chasing your tail. Cities and counties and states are going broke. Even Houston had borrowed from pension funds to make ends meet and is in budget crisis. Why wasn't it this way in the Fifties and the Sixties? Taxes were lower and most had no sales tax or lotteries. In a couple of short decades, union bargaining with people spending other peoples money has busted the system. Soon or later the Ohioans will have to suck it up when they loose all.
The goofy premise you are chasing is like a dog chasing its tail.

Jack said...

Taxes in the 50s/60s were much higher than today.

Union membership has been in steep decline for decades and was 2.5 times higher in the 50s/60s.

Texas enacted a generic sales tax in 1961 (and the state had enacted taxes on the purchase of motor vehicles, gasoline, and cigarettes much earlier than that).

Texas state lottery approved in 1991.

Good job Sark, you're 1 for 4!

But anyway, we're not debating the ideological finer points of SB 5. We're discussing the merits of the vote. You (amongst others) exalted the voting process last year, and now you seem to show quite a bit of disdain for it. You went on and on about what "the people" want but now ignore those same claims. Wolf even called the voters "morons" while Blogger compared them to "rotten spoiled Greeks". Wow.

Sarkazein said...

Jack- Taxes in cities, counties, and states were lower. as in fees, property tax, sales tax and they got less federal aid. But they weren't broke.
Your premise is - if you were against Obamacare and had ever stated it was passed against the "will of the people" than you have to be FOR everything the people vote for. It is a goofy premise.
Keep chasing your tail...

Jack said...

"votes are what count more than statement"

Wolf's Head said...

A timely take on voting and freedom.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo210.html

When a majority can vote to steal, enslave or abuse the minority there is no freedom.

Maybe that is why Jack is in favor of it.

Sarkazein said...

The rate of tax initially set in 1961 was 2 percent of the retail sales price of all tangible personal property not specifically exempted. The legislature changed the rate to 3 percent in 1968, 3¼ percent in 1969, and 4 percent in 1971. The rate was further increased to 4.125 percent in 1984, 5.25 percent in 1986, 6 percent in 1987, and 6.25 percent in 1990.

AND NOW WE"RE BROKE!

Jack- Please show your text book proof that 8.25% is a lower tax rate than than 2%.

Sarkazein said...

Were are commenting on Ohio... meaning non-Federal.
So JAck, to try and prove a point that tax rates are lower now than decades ago, Jack links us to his much higher link.

Jack said...

Well you stated no sales tax when there clearly was. No = 0

2 > 0

Bam.

"votes are what count more than statement"

Blogger said...

As I have said before, somewhere I read that early union leaders thought it incomprehensible that anyone would be foolish enough to extend collective bargaining to public workers. As I understand it, unions were established to give workers a level playing field with management. There is a built in safeguard in non-public unions. If you ask for too much, the company goes under and so do the jobs.

There is no such safeguard for public unions. If you ask for too much, the taxpayer digs deeper.
However, we have lately seen some large municipal entities declare bankruptcy. Because of the Ohio vote, states may be forced to go the same way as the only method of breaking the public union’s death grip.

Jack said...

Whether or not you agree with the outcome, as an American, you have to show respect for the process.

Sarkazein said...

Process MAYBE (if ACORN, Unions, New Black Panthers and others don't cheat)... results NO.

Blogger said...

All of the business Saturday talk show participants, feel as I do about Ohio. The people of Ohio have thrown such a shock wave into the system that they may have destroyed any chance of states balancing their budgets. Worse still, they will have made the Super Committee's cost cutters quake in their boots. Perhaps Ohio voters have made a deal impossible.

Oh well, maybe the Ohioans can finish us off before the Mayan predicted end of the world Dec. 2012.

Sarkazein said...

Unions and government regs have run many manufactures out of the US to prevent bankruptcy. The Cities can't go off shore. So once the money is no longer available, the cities will have to declare... adios pension funds. In Ohio, the blame will be laid directly on those who did not seize the opportunity.

Wolf's Head said...

"Whether or not you agree with the outcome, as an American, you have to show respect for the process." Don't know Jack s**t

Process"?????

AS an American, you know we are a Republic, NOT a democracy.

AS an American, you show respect for the rights of others, including the right to property.

AS an American, you know voting is for democratically elected Representatives who are sworn to uphold the Constitution, not your lusts.

AS and American, you fight for the rights of others, not to take from targeted groups for your personal benefit.

Right?

Oh, I forgot, you're left.

Sarkazein said...

Tying into Wolfs Head's comment, Texas had 10 Constitutional amendments on the 2011 ballot last Tuesday. I guaranty the majority of the 16% of the Texas voters were unfamiliar with the amendments, as I was, and read them for the first time in the voting booth. Seems like a bad process.

Wolf's Head said...

It disgusts me to see people in America (I can't call them Americans as they have no concept of what that means)demand that the gov't steal from working families and give that wealth to parasitic sycophants of the left because they believe they are entitled to someone else s property.

The Unions and OWS are thugs and thieves, and a gov't that steals from one group to give to another is not legitimate.

The difference between the left and the Conservatives in America is exemplified by this man.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2011/11/13/what-my-d6-coauthor-did-on-veterans-day/

He's right, many so called Americans don't deserve the military we have.