This blog originally founded by Blogger who holds a theological degree and a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Taught Psychology for 32 years and is now Professor Emeritus. Is a board-certified psychologist and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in his profession. Ministered as a chaplain, and pastored Baptist and Episcopal churches. Publications cover the integration of psychology and theology. Served in the Army, the Merchant Marines and the Peace Corps.

Monday, January 9, 2012

Blowing Rock's Version of the Right To Bear Arms!

This was initially brought up by 'anonymous' on one of the vent threads and now by "Dog Tom"....

We know that most of our conservative readers feel strongly about this issue and may want to get involved.

Thanks DOG TOM for resurfacing the issue!




Dog Tom said...
Folks,

Not sure if you know what's going on in Blowing Rock, but tomorrow night the Town Council will decide if one can carry concealed weapons into the Blowing Rock Memorial Park and other areas. What makes this especially interesting is the fact Blowing Rock planning board has been reaching out to dozens of other towns across NC to get support for passing the ban.

The tactic has worked. I was talking with a member of the planning board yesterday and learned that the Police Chief from Garner, NC has written a letter to be read during the council meeting tomorrow night stating that Blowing Rock should ban weapons on town property. Does it seem odd that town officials in Blowing Rock are trying to have decisions made based on what other municipalaties are doing? I thought those decisions were supposed to be made based on what the taxpayer said?

Not sure how many of you plan on attending tomorrow night, but the Town of Blowing Rock will stop at nothing to take our rights away. The Land Trade over there was bad enough, and this will surely go to the lefties unless we have a presence.

Who will stand alongside me at tomorrow's meeting?


94 comments:

NewGuy said...

I don't have any idea why the opinion of someone from Garner NC would have any influence on the decisions made by people elected by the voters in Blowing Rock.

Anonymous said...

I was told that a bunch of liberal women that have always pretty much ran the town are very much against CCW and are really going to try to stop it.

Facts don't matter to these fools. They think they know what is good for us better than we do. It doesn't matter that for 16 years there hasn't been a problem with people with concealed carry permits and there won't be a problem in parks now. As a matter of fact, there have probably been a lot of people already carrying in the parks because they were not posted or if the were it was not done very good. Nobody knew about the law that said you couldn't have a gun on any town property.

I got an email back from the Chamber of Commerce answering my promise to not go spend my money in Blowing Rock if the post the park. They have informed their members and told them to go speak. Since many of them are in the group of liberal women, who knows what they will say.

Please come talk at the meeting. You are going to be limited to 3 minutes.

Blowing Rock Town Hall
5:00
Tuesday November 10th.

Anonymous said...

Boohoo , Anon....grow up, stop believing in the Boogie Man, and deal with it. Why can't parents/children have areas in towns that they dont have to come near guns? I am all for your right to carry LEGALLY, why can't some people have areas that are gun-free?

G.I.G said...

Anon, my answer to your question is this. People do not have gun free areas because people do not have crime free areas. When there is no crime I will not need to carry my gun legally.

Wolf's Head said...

It is not a matter of crime alone, but of freedom.

Perhaps the anti gun Anonymous would prefer parks where other liberties are curtailed? Maybe one where you have to make a certain amount of money to enter? Or maybe one that keeps those pesky Mexicans out? Who knows what they're jabbering about.

Limiting another's freedoms because you don't think they're necessary is a sure sign of a weak and disturbed individual who let's their fears, whether real or imaginary, to try and control other people's lives.

guy faulkes said...

Preach it Wolf's Head.

Anonymous, they have no more right to tell me I cannot carry a gun than I do to to make them carry one (although the kids would be safer if I could make them qualify with and carry a gun before they were allowed to use public transportation or get a driver;s license. I do not have the right.).

Tired of Teachers said...

I don't know why I'm jumping in on this one, but no, I don't find it one bit odd that officials are seeking opinions from officials in other towns. I'd like to hear the letter from the Garner police chief, but I don't see anything inherently nefarious in reaching out to other people who have had similar debates and reached their own conclusions.
For the record, I am very much against the ban, but I'm not onboard with the conspiracy theories, either. People have strong feelings on both sides and are seeking support from others who may have input. Nothing wrong with that.

Dog Tom said...

All,

The Town of Blowing Rock is up to its old tricks again. Today they decided to change the venue of the meeting to the Blowing Rock History Museum. From what I'm hearing, they did this because two town staff members, Jennifer Brown of the Blowing Rock Recreation Department and Kent Graham of the Blowing Rock Fire Department, decided it would be wise to bring liberal factions of the Blowing Rock PTO to the meeting (Brown has already written a letter against concealed carry to the town council).

The Town, rather than listening to taxpayers (119 emails for concealed carry, 2 against) is pulling out all stops to have concealed carry in all parks banned, even if it means having staff do the bidding!! The chief arguement Town Staff is using is children. When liberals can't think of reasonable, objective facts, they resort to the timeworn children tactic remniscant of Bill Clinton.

Although we have speakers headed to the town meeting tomorrow that are well versed in countering pedantic rants from the left, we need YOU. Don't sit on the sidelines for this one folks. YOUR rights are on the line here. I'm now not only asking you to attend the meeting with us (many of us are speaking), but your needed as late-hour recruiters.

Can each of you recruit 5 others to attend (and speak if possible)? The Town Council is full of flip-floppers who may well vote based on a sea of voters in the audience. Don't give them the opportunity. The meeting is at 5 PM and the parks carry is 2nd on the Agenda. Try and get there early so you can prevent antis from getting the good seats. Our rights are counting on us!

Dog Tom said...

Remember, 5 PM at the Blowing Rock History Museum located just off main street.

It appears gun owners will get a bite to eat after the meeting. If the vote goes our way, we'll spend our money in town, most likely at Outback. If not, we're going to Boone.

Invite your family members, friends, ex-lovers, lovers, concibines, and anyone else you can think of who enjoys freedom as much as you do.

Lastly, it was brought to my attention that the concealed weapons ban, if enacted, will ban weapons in the Blowing Rock Memorial Park. That park is dedicated to veterans who gave the supreme sacrifice, in blood, for our freedoms which includes the 2nd Amendment. Although some want to pay these veterans back by taking away the freedoms they fought and died for, it's our DUTY to ensure this doesn't happen.

See you all, a legion I hope, at the town meeting.

D.T.

Anonymous said...

Alot of crime in BR Park? Right next to the Police Department? Weak arguement....If you want to carry a gun, grow a pair and join the Police Department.

Sarkazein said...

Anonymous wrote- "Weak arguement....If you want to carry a gun, grow a pair and join the Police Department."

So you can show up at a crime scene after the fact and investigate what happened to the unarmed victim.

Dog Tom said...

Tired of Teachers said:

"I'd like to hear the letter from the Garner police chief, but I don't see anything inherently nefarious in reaching out to other people"

I don't either TOT, if they reach out to both sides equally. The Garner letter should indeed be included in the meeting IF letters from Hickory and Wilkesboro are also included. These 2 muncipalaties choose to honor 2nd Amendment Rights by allowing parks carry.

Don't you think it odd that the Town of Blowing Rock would reach out only to Garner and not to other towns and cities on the opposite end of the spectrum? I do and find it exceedingly nefarious as you say. Town Staff, especially Town Manager Mark Hildebran, should be neutral on this one as it is a taxpayer issue, not a town employee issue.

And finally, I don't think the ban should be considered in any form. Why are we having to fight for something we should have anyway - Constitutional Rights!! That too, is very nefarious.

Do you plan to attend the meeting and fight for your rights TOT?

G.I.G said...

Anon , I have a question for you. We are both in the park me carrying my weapon concealed you not. How would this infringe on your rights? My weapon can not be seen on me by you, so to you I appear unarmed.

I also promise if someone attacks you or your family I will refrain from doing anything to help you so i do not infringe on your right to remain weapon free.

Dog Tom said...

Anonymous,

You say there isn't much crime in the park? Parks in NC have not seen the typical decrease in crime that other locations have that allow carrying of concealed weapons. The police are only minutes away.......when seconds count.

As for growing a pair (funny coming from an anonymous poster), I do, and take personal responsibility for my families protection as opposed to hoping a police officer will be in the right place at the right time. Hope ain't a strategy my friend.

Also, did you consider the fact Blowing Rock PD is a small department with the potential for officers to be out patrolling the city instead of patrolling the park? As someone who doesn't appear oriented towards personal responsibility, I suppose you didn't.

Sarkazein said...

"As for growing a pair (funny coming from an anonymous poster),..."-Dog Tom

Good one!

Anonymous said...

If the vote goes the way of guns being allowed to be in town my family will no longer use the Blowing Rock facilities, nor will any of our friends. If you have your gun at the pool and you keep it in your pool bag and a kid come by, goes through your bag (before you say that doesn't happen, there have been plenty of time when my son and I were in the pool and came out and a kids was getting snack out of the bag) and pulls out the gun and an accident happens that would be tragic. Whens the last time there was a shooting in Blowing Rock? I do not agree with the notion that guns should be where children are. As a mother I absolutely DO NOT feel safer with guns at the pool and the park and that is my right as a mother. Majority of the guns that kill people are registered guns and have been stolen from those who are responsible. Keep them out of our town.

Dog Tom said...

Anonymous,

If the vote goes towards restricting Constitutional Rights, my family will not use the Blowing Rock facilities, nor will any of our friends.

Your "gun in the bag" fallacy at the pool doesn't hold water. It is already illegal to place a weapon where a minor can gain access to it without adult supervision. Concealed carry holders understand this because they have attended intensive training detailing laws like this as well as gun safety. You obviously have not been to any such training or else you wouldn't make such unsubstantiated claims.

I DO agree with the notion that children are safer when people are allowed to exercise their Constitutional Rights. Would you say your kid is safer in urban Los Angeles where common folks aren't allowed to own guns? My bet is no. As a parent, I DO FEEL SAFER when I have my weapon present so that I can choose to protect my family. As a father, that is my right.

A majority of murders (actually all of them) are committed by people. With 3000 dead the result of box cutters on 9/11, do you also intend to ban box cutters in town? What about swimming pools themselves? Remember Christy Moody who drowned at the Watauga Swim complex in the late 70s?(or where you even here then). Or the young girl who drowned in a lake in Aho? So you want to ban swimming pools now, right? Swimming pools and ski slopes have killed far more kids of Blowing Rock than guns. Where's your outrage?

As far as it being a right to oppose guns in Blowing Rock, it is indeed your right to choose not to bring a gun into town. When talking about rights though, the Constitution spells out my rights to carry a gun - it's called the Second Amendment and it trumps misguided opinions.

Keep personal responsibility and the right to self-preservation in Blowing Rock tonight. As you can see folks, the antis reasoning is emotionally based with no facts to back up the thought process. The Town Meeting starts in 1 hour - will you be there to fight for your rights or allow folks such as the one posting above to take your rights?

We will know in a couple of hours.

Wolf's Head said...

Anonymous Mom you need to gun proof your kid. It's easy and if you can't teach something as simple as not to touch anything that looks like a gun and tell an adult you don't deserve to be a parent.

This will help:

http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/

Dog Tom said...

Well folks, the liberal antis beat us soundly. Those conservatives too apathetic to attend, obviously many, be advised you DESERVE to lose your rights. Your children live in a less safe world due to your ignorance and stay-at-home attitude. This my friends is exactly why President Obama will win this year. The liberal faction, even if their arguements are weak or emotionally based, came out in force to TAKE what they believe is theirs. Obama does this very same thing - Health Care, Non-Recess Appointments, Backdoor Amnesty. And YOU simply sit there looking stupid. Well, you are indeed stupid. Again, you deserve what's coming to you in 2012. The lame duck President will take it to you like you could never imagine. Then again, you will probably sit around and take that too!

There were some brilliant presentations by what conservatives were there, most especially Vince Gable, who put to rest many lies and misconceptions the antis were trying to state as fact. Very good job Mr. Gable - you represent what a true public servant does - uphold the rights of citizens.

As for the town staff influencing PTO and others to attend - a fine job by the socialist oppressors. They had a behind-the-doors gameplan that they stuck to. If consevatives were as committed as liberals, things would be different.

Conservative blowhards and couch potatos, enjoy your oppression over the coming years.........

Anonymous said...

Vince Gable was not strong for gun rights! He got up there talking legal babble. He was NOT forceful for our cause. He let everyone know he is VP of the gun club....big deal! He said nothing about the craziness of this ordinance. What a shame! Most disappointing, Dan Soucek was too afraid to speak and ducked and dodged in the back of the room. Unreal! Show a backbone you two!

Dog Tom said...

I think Vince influenced some of the crowd in a postive way. He corrected a lady when she tried to say the concealed weapons law would allow felons to carry guns. That was pretty cool.

Dan Soucek was certainly a disappointment. Initially he said he would speak if he thought it would help the cause. What he meant to say is he was going to judge the crowd for potential votes and then gauge whether or not he should open his mouth. Like a true RINO intent on re-election, he hid like a coward. Soucek has children at Blowing Rock School and could have really done some damage against the antis. He will be another RINO to vote out.

In the end, the antis had more and played hardball. The conservatives that were there did exceedingly well, just not enough of them. You idiots who were too lazy to come, it rests on your sagging, unproud shoulders. You certainly earned bondage the easy way!

Anonymous said...

Vince did nothing....Dan did nothing....vote them out!

Sarkazein said...

Shall Issue was a huge defeat for the American Left. It goes against all they hold dearly. Their only fight, now, is back to the book... incrementalism. Every place they can think of where they can think up a bogus argument for banning the Second Amendment, they will. They will also try to ban certain guns from carry. Dog Tom is right, if people don't show up to fight off the pink hordes, they will win. Nothing excites the pink hordes more than taking away an individual's rights.

G.I.G said...

I was there this was a true loss for freedom. As a consumer I will refuse to spend a penny in a town that does not care about my safety and my ability to ensure it for my self and family.
As a business owner any further expansion plans for additional locations that would provide jobs will now exclude Blowing Rock, from my companies choices of locations to operate in.
I would never support a town run by cowards who only want criminals to be able to have guns for committing crime. Not citizens who have the right to defend themselves.

G.I.G said...

Here are Cullie Tarleton's new campaign slogans since he annouced he is running again.

Blowing Rock The Criminals 1st choice for easy victims. Hows that for a bumper sticker?

Or come to Blowing Rock we wont protect ourselves.

Or maybe Come to Blowing Rock we have the highest pacifistic for the picking on the Blue Ridge.

Sarkazein said...

GIG- Is the ban from the entire town?

Dog Tom said...

It wouldn't surprise me if Cullie wins this year against Jordan. Soucek didn't do conservatives any favors with his RINO tactics. Johnathan Jordan wrote a letter in support of concealed carry that was given to town officials, but he was unable to be there. With the amount of apathy among conservatives these days, Jordan will have a tough go.

Then again, if Jordan loses it will be YOUR fault you arrogant, lazy psuedo-conservatives. What a bunch of pansies you mentally crippled, slothful idiots are. Let a bunch of crazy liberals eat your lunch without so much as a whimper. As I said before, you idiots deserve EVERYTHING that comes to you with the institution of liberal politics.

Sark is right, when a liberal smells victory, watch out! They are empowered now, and will look to limit a whole range of freedoms - because they can.

No one there to stop them.

Dog Tom said...

We must not forget we owe last night's loss, in part, to Republicans like NC House Speaker Thom Tillson who watered down the Castle Doctrine to give Towns like Blowing Rock the ability to ban weapons in athletic facilities. Nothing like having your own work against you is there? Couple apathy with an inside job and you lose freedom. Will Thom see any heat during election season due to his anti-freedom efforts? If last night's any indication, I doubt it.

DT said...

To give you an idea of how extremist the Blowing Rock Town Council is, Councilman Doug Matheson actually said the founding fathers meant for the 2nd Amendment to change over time. A true progressive! Most originalists, including Scalia on the Supreme Court argue that the Constitution keep US from changing, not the other way around.

I wonder what other parts of the Constitution Matheson thinks need changing. Perhaps the 1st Amendment or perhaps the 4th? Isn't it interesting how many of those involved in public service (Matheson is a volunteer on the Fire Department) think public service somehow takes precedent over the taxpayer. Mr Matheson, care to tell anyone why you no longer work at the ABC Store?

2 4 T said...

This should explain everything...

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2010-04-13-Image.jpg

Anonymous said...

Gable did a good job. Soucek was conspicuous by both his presence and his silence. He has a lot of explaining to do the people that have supported him.

I don't know what he thought he was gaining. The people against guns and self defense aren't going to support him anyway. Hr just made his own people mad at him.

G.I.G said...

Sark, as far as i understood the banning will be adding the three public park areas to the already prohibited areas in town.

By taking where you can carry away a block at a time it will be easier on the pacifists to mark the whole town as crime friendly, then to try and go against the law head on and just ban the whole town.

Sarkazein said...

G.I.G- I was curious because the Texas CHL code does not allow municipalities to ban Concealed carry except for in buildings where they post the legal sign. Court buildings always ban carry. But, the code will not allow a leftist city like Austin to ban carry within its city limits.

Anonymous said...

I couldn't be a politician. If I caused someone to be hurt because I disarmed law abiding citizens like Yount, Steele, and Matheson did, I couldn't stand it. Could you?

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

Perhaps someone should propose a concealed hand grenade permit too. What about an initiative to allow people to walk anywhere they want with small missiles attached to their backs... I mean, what if someone launches a SCUD missile into the park... we'd be defenseless without personal missiles. We should equip every man, woman, and child with a military shovel as well. That way of someone pulls out a gun in the park we can all dig out trenches to avoid the crossfire. Or... and this is a wacky idea I know, maybe just prevent all weapons from being brought into that area. Again, if you're that worried about it, build a huge, razor-wired fence around it and install full body scanners. I'd rather have that than a bunch of random people trying to shoot around my children to get the "bad guy". Do the math... 1 person shooting in the park is deadly... 10 people shooting in the park is a massacre of the innocent.

Sarkazein said...

Squirrel?

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

Yep

Sarkazein said...

Yep

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

OK then...

Rodger Young said...

Something I found interesting about the meeting was how well organized the PTO/anti-gun faction was. They all wore green to identify themselves (green is the color of Blowing Rock Elementary). As soon as they realized they were the majority, they called, on two seperate occasions, for all those against concealed carry in the park to stand up. It made quite an impression on the council to see they were a majority.

The Constitution notwithstanding, the council made a decision based on what the electorate wanted. The majority of the electorate was against concealed carry in the parks and the council went with them.

Had pro-gun factions been organized and had superior numbers, it might well have gone the other way. Sounds to me like those who claim they support concealed carry were not all that committed. Democracy at work (not the Anti-Constitution part).

Anonymous said...

Did you ever think that there weren't more carry conceal proponents there because it wasn't an issue to them? Maybe the sky is falling on a couple of you Chicken Littles. From the reports, Sen. Soucek (who voted yes to the bill WITH the amendment) didn't even care to speak on the matter. I guess he showed his true colors when someone wasn't there to tell him what to say!

G.I.G said...

Rodger , I hope you never need to defend yourself or your family from someone who could care less about weapons laws, in Criminal Friendly Rock.

Rodger Young said...

GIG,

You WON'T be able to defend your family in Blowing Rock. That's the point I am making. The anti-gun faction outworked, out-thought, and out-attacked the pro-gun minority so the council went with what they saw from the electorate. The council of course trampled the Constitution into dust, but that's been the norm for years now.

I carry concealed weapons wherever I go, and my family's protection comes first GIG. Personal protection and self-defense don't seem to come first from those who claim they support it. Where was the Tea Party in all this? Perhaps Pelosi was right when she called the Tea Party "astroturf". Judging from what happened this past Tuesday, she just might be right.

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

Hey, cut Soucek some slack. The man's a father first and a politician second. What father in their right mind wants a wild west shootout in BR Park? It's one thing to argue about personal rights but it's another issue altogether to argue that anyone should be able to draw and fire a weapon in a crowd of children for ANY reason. The arguments here seem to mostly be about defending against some unknown person who may attempt to harm others. That could easily set up a shootout in the Park. As I said before, 1 person shooting in the park is deadly, 10 people shooting in the park is a massacre of the innocent.

Dog Tom said...

Watauga Watch has posted a thread on the Blowing Rock concealed carry defeat. The humiliation of defeat is pretty deep and wide for so-called conservatives who deserve it. Go over there and read what happens when empowered liberals gain a foothold.

Sarkazein said...

I can't tell if Squirrel is writing a humorous and sarcastic comment or if he is serious. Serious, because there are actually people out there that think like that.

G.I.G said...

Rodger , If you read above I was there and against what was passed. I do not know why you have an issue with me, but i believe your anger should be directed at the politicians of criminal rock.
I personally as well as my family will never step foot there again. Nor will my company consider criminal rock as a possible location for our next expansion.

Sarkazein said...

This is an active map of the growth in Shall Issue states.

If Squirrel is serious, perhaps he can point out the states with parks having had shootouts by permit holders and which states have had the most innocent by-standers shot by permit holders.

Sarkazein said...

Also if Squirrel is serious, perhaps he could also point out the parks having had the most sexual assaults, kidnappings, and muggings/beat downs. Occupy time periods can be left out.

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

Sarkazein, I understand your points but, I'm talking about what the research demonstrates in a broader sense AND I'm including suicide in the mix. I'm just restating the research which says, and this is a no brainer, in areas with higher concentrations of gun ownership, there are more firearm deaths. I don't think that's a stretch. I'll be glad to send you the article if you like. I'm a gun owner myself, I just don't believe that guns need to be carried everywhere. As it applies to BR park, if you increase the number of people carrying guns in the park, you naturally increase the likelihood of an accident. Not that gun owners aren't responsible people... it would be the same if we were talking about knives.....

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

As for crimes committed in parks, we're not talking about LA or NY here. We're not even talking about Charlotte. We're also not talking about a park tucked away in the woods or isolated in any way. We're talking about a park located on a main thoroughfare and adjacent to a police station. Unless someone has specific training from the military, law enforcement, or some other such organization, they probably shouldn't be attempting tactical takedowns of criminal subjects in crowded areas and on a main road.

Sarkazein said...

Squirrel- How many times, while listening to a news interview, have you hear- " You just don't think of something like that happening around here." Almost always an answer to a question about some innocent person being victimized by a criminal/criminals.

If your comments were humor, ya got me.

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

Lastly, as I'm sure you know, there are probably a million things to learn and consider before pulling out a gun to try and stop a spree killer let's say. Especially in a crowded area with uneven terrain and many buildings and structures in close proximity. I can appreciate people's desire to protect themselves and others, I just don't believe that there is a good, logical rationale to carry guns into the BR park. If I begin to believe that I need to carry a gun with me all the time, everywhere I go, it's probably time for me to take a look at myself and figure out why I believe that. This is, of course, unless there is some real and identifiable threat to my or my family's safety. Possibilities are not threats.

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

No, Sarkazein, I'm not trying to be humorous. I'm just someone who loves his kids and wants for them what he had as a kid... to be able to be free from fear, play, and have fun, unless feeling afraid is necessary. I don't want them to go through their childhood in fear of what MIGHT happen. If they do then they will have missed their childhood. This is not to say that we haven't taught them personal safety and the things they need to know... but they need to experience their youth without thinking that someone may jump out of the bushes at any moment. I had that, you likely did too.

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

No, Sarkazein, I'm not trying to be humorous. I'm just someone who loves his kids and wants for them what he had as a kid... to be able to be free from fear, play, and have fun, unless feeling afraid is necessary. I don't want them to go through their childhood in fear of what MIGHT happen. If they do then they will have missed their childhood. This is not to say that we haven't taught them personal safety and the things they need to know... but they need to experience their youth without thinking that someone may jump out of the bushes at any moment. I had that, you likely did too.

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

By the way, I really appreciate that we can have a civil debate on these issues. I think it would be nice if more people could do that.

guy faulkes said...

It all boils down to one thing. The Town of Blowing Rock did nothing to keep criminals from carrying guns anywhere because criminals, by definition, break laws. All they did was make places where law abiding citizens cannot carry. They chose the criminals over the rest of us.

I agree with Anonymous. If there is an incident in any of these areas where a CC permit holder could have stopped it, then the Councilmen that passed the ban share the blame.

Squirrel, no one tells you you have to carry a gun or defend yourself. Why do you think you have the right to tell others they cannot do so in a BR park or anywhere else?

I find that type of moral elitism offensive.

Your kids would be far safer in BR parks if there were CC permit holders present. You have condemned them to a safe area for criminals when you take them there, due to this legislation.

Sarkazein said...

T A Squirrel- When I was a kid playing in the park, it would not have bothered me one bit if my Mom or Dad or Uncle had a pistol in his pocket. Not sure why it would bother you, especially if you didn't know about it.
Your argument about "old west shoot-outs" never happened. Many liberals used that argument to try and stop Shall Issue laws. Liberals are asking others to be as wrong as them about the reality... why?

Sarkazein said...

T A Squirrel- How many shoot-outs by CC permit holders happened in the BR Parks prior to your town council passing the new code? And during those shoot-outs, how many by-standers were killed or wounded?

Anonymous said...

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/gun_control/38_favor_stricter_gun_control_50_oppose

Anonymous said...

I'm sick of these Jared Loughner-type lunatics inserting their obsession with firearms into every darn place -- now even our public parks and pools. Who in God's name would send their kid to a pool that's been invaded by a bunch of trigger-happy creeps? No parent feels safer knowing that a man considering himself a "crime"-fighting vigilante can walk onto public property and "police" other people with a concealed firearm. Who in their right mind would want that?

If you are so terribly frightened of not having a gun on your person in a public place, because crime is so utterly rampant in Blowing Rock (ha ha ha), then you have a solution: stay home! If you're that scared, you don't belong in public.

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

Sarkazein, I can appreciate your point of view but I can't seem to understand what is so difficult to understand about mine. The point repeatedly made is that having guns on your person to counter another person with a gun should they attempt to harm you or others increases safety. I disagree. It really boils down to simple statistics. The more people that have guns on their person at one given location, the more likely it is that one of those people may do (either intentionally or unintentionally) something reckless and dangerous with that weapon. Or that a child may somehow gain access to that weapon. Surely you aren't saying that all CW permit holders will always make the most appropriate and safest decisions at all times... this would simply be impossible to predict. Having 2 people around with guns presents a very minute chance that one of them could be unstable. Having 100 means you have a greater chance.

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

As for my "wild west" reference, if a "bad guy" pulled a weapon in the park and there were multiple people there who had firearms on them, how could that not turn into a shootout? Again, if someone is officially trained in the tactical takedown of shooters in crowded areas, then go for it, I'm behind ya. If not, you don't need to get involved. Let me be clear that I have no problem with concealed weapons and support someone's right to defend themselves, but can't you at least admit that anyone firing off rounds in the middle of a park full of kids, regardless of how trained and skilled they are, runs the risk of taking an innocent life?

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

Lastly, as my father told me growing up, you never take out a gun or point it at someone unless you are, with absolute certainty, going to fire it. So if it's a bad idea to fire rounds in a park full of kids, why even have the gun there in the first place?

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

Guy, I am far from a moral elitist. There are just some things that make common sense. For example, you can get as drunk as you like at your house and that's 100% your business. The moment you get behind the wheel though, you run the risk of injuring or killing others. Now, maybe you drive home drunk 50 times with no problems... that doesn't mean that the next time you won't kill another driver in a head on collision. You may always practice the most stringent gun safety imaginable but that doesn't mean that everyone carrying a gun does the same. I'm simply talking about probabilities here. More people with more guns in 1 location = more probability of an accident happening. I don't pretend to speak for everyone, just as you can't possibly tell me that 100% of the people that might carry guns into the park will be 100% safe to do so.

TeamAngrySquirrel said...

By the way, I have to be out of this discussion... I have neglected work for most of the day now... thanks to you all for being able to have this civil discussion.

Sarkazein said...

" Who in God's name would send their kid to a pool that's been invaded by a bunch of trigger-happy creeps?"- No Ballz Anonymous

Liberals are mean nasty people for the most part.

NewGuy said...

My thanks as well to all of you who have discussed your strongly held beliefs in such a calm. rational and reasonable manner.

I always enjoy observing a discussion of these important issues without the personal attacks that so often accompany them! A pleasure to be associated with a blog which actually attracts adults!

Sarkazein said...

T A Squirrel- None of what you wrote about concealed carry people has ever happened before. Your comment is unrealistic. Why make the rest of us live in a world run by unrealistic people burdened with misconceptions and, like No Ballz Anonymous, hateful minds.

Sarkazein said...

No Ballz Anonymous wrote- "I'm sick of these Jared Loughner-type lunatics inserting their obsession with firearms into every darn place -- now even our public parks and pools. Who in God's name would send their kid to a pool that's been invaded by a bunch of trigger-happy creeps?"

NewGuy are you grading on a curve?

Sarkazein said...

Some reading for T A Squirrel- Things people like NoBallz Anonymous don't want you to know

Reader said...

I doubt this will deter anyone with a CC permit to not carry their weapon. The only place I'd take mine out would be in the courthouse or somewhere that required me to go through a metal detector.

Sarkazein said...

Same here Reader. No metal detector, no problem.
Of course I carried years before their were carry permits, so I am used to it. The 2nd trumps town councils. A friend of mine wrote a book a few years before the Shall Issue law started. The book was about how to carry without getting arrested or if arrested, how to beat it. When the state started issuing permits, he decided NOT to get one. He figured it was easier to get in trouble for carrying if you have a permit than it is carrying without a permit. In the spirit of cooperation I got one anyway.

Sarkazein said...

Team Angry Squirrel- Texas had no legal way to carry a concealed handgun. Nor could you carry a handgun in the open as Virginia law aloud pre-Shall Issue. To keep from completely stepping on both the US Constitution and the Texas Constitution, one could carry a long gun.
There were no "handgun carry permits" of any kind. Even a judge could not legally carry. They did anyway.

please read This story to see where and how the Shall Issue thing started in Texas. Note- a crowded place, with children and old people, in a small town where no one expected it could happen.

Sarkazein said...

Oh, and for No Ballz Anonymous- The person that started the push for Shall Issue in Texas is a woman.

DrSuzanna Hupp

guy faulkes said...

I beleive our anti-gun anonymous is probably Lpov2. Same dull rhetoric and no attention to detail.

I do not actually thisk Team AngrySquirrrel is all that civil. He chose his name trying to belittle those that disagree with him. Having used a personal attack as his starting maneuver negates his position terribley.

Anonymous said...

At least BR hasn't got around to trying to ban guns in your house yet. They do have a law that you can;t shoot in the city limits but they kindly excepted self defense (except in the park).

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/12/florida-senior-citizen-shoots-dead-suspected-burglar/?test=latestnews

Blowing Rock Buffalo said...

The more citizens that have guns the safer society will be. Parks are now a gun free zone where criminals like Angry Squirrel can molest and kill children with impunity. Those states with Constitutional Carry (Arizona, Vermont, Alaska and Wyoming) are much safer than places that ban weapons (NYC, D.C. Blowig Rock Park).

Also, carrying a weapon is not necessarily about crime. It has even more to do with a balance of power. The people, to have true freedom, must exercise their right to keep and bear arms. Those who choose not to are sheep, those who are against it are traitors. Many traitors around these days.

Mike D. said...

"With the amount of apathy among conservatives these days" - Dog Tom

Dog Tom,

78 comments in this thread on the local conservative site. On the local liberal site, there are only two comments. This, to you, is apathy? In an election, voter enthusiasm and motivation lead to engagement in the political process and ultimately voter turnout. And turnout is everything.

Mike D. said...

Mr. Squirrel sir, if I may:

Originally, I am from Miami, FL. I will always remember a story I saw on the local news there, concerning a home invasion robbery. Two men broke into the house of an unarmed, single woman. Rather than call the police, this woman called her next door neighbor as she cowered in a back room. The neighbor immediately came over and entered the house with a 12-gauge pump action shotgun. The first of the two robbers died in the hallway, and the second died while trying to escape through a bedroom window. He did make it through the window, but only with the help of the shotgun.

This story was an isolated incident, and the neighbor was not charged with any crime, as he was acting in defense of another, but let me ask you something. If this scenario played out repeatedly in a community, let's say 25% of the time that a home invasion occurred... how long do you think it would take before home invasion robberies ended permanently in that community? I mean obviously each time an offender was shot, one criminal would be removed from the pool of active home invaders, but don't you think word would spread that home invasion is a really, really bad idea?

Can you not imagine that a criminal would be much less likely to cause trouble if he or she knew that there was a real danger of being shot by someone trained to use a gun and carrying one that the criminal cannot even see?

If you were driving at 75 MPH in a 65 MPH stretch of interstate, and you saw an unmarked white Chevy Impala parked on a little access road, would you slow down? Why? Because "what if it is a cop", right? You don't know, so you fear the worst.

That is the central element of deterrence. It's about turning fear around. It's about empowering the innocent, the responsible among us, and making the criminals the ones who are afraid.

Sarkazein said...

Well written MikeD.-" That is the central element of deterrence. It's about turning fear around. It's about empowering the innocent..."

Sarkazein said...

Blowing Rock Buffalo wrote-" Also, carrying a weapon is not necessarily about crime. It has even more to do with a balance of power. The people, to have true freedom, must exercise their right to keep and bear arms.

49% of the reason why I carry. It is a hard thing to explain to people who believe the government should be responsible for you. Also to the people believing your right of self-defence ends on the other side of your threshold. As most violent criminals consider themselves Democrats, I can see why mostly Democrats want to ban gun carry.

Blowing Rock Buffalo said...

Mike D,

Wrong again. There is much apathy among conservatives. It's why they lost this past Tuesday. They were out organized, outnumbered, and out man-handled by extremists bent on taking away rights. Many Watauga locals who claim they are for gun rights decided to not show up - Apathy. The fringe left is now empowered!

Blowing Rock Buffalo said...

Mike D,

Wrong again. There is much apathy among conservatives. It's why they lost this past Tuesday. They were out organized, outnumbered, and out man-handled by extremists bent on taking away rights. Many Watauga locals who claim they are for gun rights decided to not show up - Apathy. The fringe left is now empowered!

Blowing Rock Buffalo said...

Mike D,

The reason there are 2 comments on the Watch is because that site is censored heavily. I've posted five times on that topic alone only to have my posts removed.

Jeff Doolittle said...

Hey folks, Kilwin's Ice Cream shop is friendly to concealed weapon owners! Was there yesterday and no sign on the window barring concealed weapons. In light of the extremists trying to ban weapons in Blowing Rock, I say we patronize Kilwins to help show our support for their decision not to ban concealed weapons.

Anonymous said...

You are wrong Mr. Dolittle. I was at the meeting. The most outspoken person against concealed carry was the owner of Kilwinds. She shouted out that Kilwinds would be posted against concealed carry within a few days when a person said you could get an ice cream at Kilwins and eat on the street in front of the store with no town regulation stopping you.

There is a easy solution to this. She does not want me in her store and I don't want to support someone that keeps me from being able to defend myself. I just won't shop there and we both are happy Maybe other CC permit holders will feel the same and make her even more happy.

Anonymous said...

I won't be in her store again. I was at a meeting last fall when Dan Soucek was speaking. It was a very civil discussion and Soucek was taking all questions and answering them in a civil and straightforward manner.

Many of those in attendance disagreed with Soucek's position on certain issues, but they did so respectfully and received respect in return.

That is, until Killyan's owner shouted out some sarcastic remark while Soucek was speaking. She was asked to keep it civil and she did not have any support for her outburst from the crowd in attendance - even though many of them were in agreement with her on the issue.

I don't know if she felt that she had embarrassed herself - but I thought she did!

Disgusted said...

Reader, you are about the fourth person to say they'll carry anyway. Be careful. There's a $500.00 fine and a six months jail sentence that goes with this law.

Sarkazein said...

The 2nd Amendment trumps the sissies.

Reader said...

Dis almost scared me to death with that post. I've got to gather myself now.

Dog Tom said...

In the end, liberals out foxed conservatives who were apathetic cowards towards concealed carry in Blowing Rock. And what happened to the Tea Party? Gone never to return?

With conservative apathy, I predict a Hussein Obama victory.

Blogger said...

Mike D wrote:"Originally, I am from Miami, FL. I will always remember a story". That in turn reminded me of my first visit with a family friend living in Miami. It is a true story. She was an elderly lady living alone. As she showed us our room, she opened the drawer beside the bed. "She showed us a 38. This is for you while you are here." We asked, "But what will you do?" She said "Oh, I have a sawed off shotgun under my bed."

Johnny Rico said...

Sorry I couldn't make this event Dog Tom. I was in Budapest on work/vacation and couldn't make it. There will be another day for the liberal socialists in B.R.

Go a bit easier on some of the conservatives - some of them had to work at 5 pm which is what time this meeting took place. Although I agree with you about the apathy thing, we might want to message it a little different so we don't turn them off completly. Imagine me saying that!

From what I am hearing, there are some interesting electoral countermeasures that will help to right the ship.