This blog originally founded by Blogger who holds a theological degree and a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Taught Psychology for 32 years and is now Professor Emeritus. Is a board-certified psychologist and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in his profession. Ministered as a chaplain, and pastored Baptist and Episcopal churches. Publications cover the integration of psychology and theology. Served in the Army, the Merchant Marines and the Peace Corps.

Friday, June 8, 2012

Will Soucek Stab Us In the Back?

The big concern our neighbors have with Dan Soucek’s ill conceived and reckless ETJ action is that we lose the R1 zoning status we worked so hard to obtain.  Although he has promised to work with us on this, he has yet to tell us how he plans to do so.

R1 zoning allows homes with no more than two unrelated individuals.  Thus, it has created the few remaining liveable neighborhoods in the Boone area.

Right now, every home in my neighborhood (save mine) was bought because we are zoned R1 and is a wonderful place to raise a family. 

But, now let me describe life before R1.  Before R1 the property at the foot of my drive was filled with druggies.  At one point the situation became so bad that a narcotics officer was placed in the house.  We were told there was also prostitution.  One morning after a big party I came out and found someone had taken a dump on the hood of my car.   Many mornings I had to roust out of bed, drugged kids to get their cars moved so I could go to work.  They were always surly of course, as if I was imposing on them.

Working on around to the next lot touching mine, were the neighbors who not only were the original homeowners in the community, but came from original Watauga County families.  They threw in the towel and moved away.  We lost the best people in the neighborhood.

Next, on the other side of my home the parties were so loud, that I finally bought me a big boom box.  Each time they cranked up the rock music, I cranked up Jimmy Swaggart preaching.  It was the battle of the boom boxes.

Finally, there was the first house down the lane from us.  The owner filled the little house with eight kids.  They blocked our lane with their cars, sometimes going off to school and leaving them there.  They also had a vicious dog who would no longer allow me to walk to my mail box.

When the official from the Planning and Inspections came to check out our complaints, not only did the dog attack her but one kid actually verbally accosted her.  Now that was fun as she gave them only a few weeks to clear out. 

There are three communities here, all of which the people worked together to get our R1 status.  I am sure there are others like ours who were never consulted.   Without R1, our lives could become hell again and our property values will depreciate.   Someone better step forward soon and reassure us.  Right now, I am freaking out.  It also doesn’t help that my Democrat neighbors taunt me for helping Soucek get elected.
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Blogger said...

Republicans don't need to be reminded they lost this county once because they would not respond to the need for zoning.
They better start telling us what they plan to do before election time.

Lennie said...

Soucek is just like Thom "Payoff" Tillis. Nothing but useless RINOs. They'll kiss your ass in person and promise to follow the will of their contituents, but once they're away from home, screw the voters. They won't cut spending. They won't stand-up to the satanic liberals trying to take away our Christian ideals. They won't get the government out of my life. And they surely won't clamp down on the muslims and illegal immigrants.

RINOs will be rolling over in November.

Deborah Greene said...

Sen. Soucek’s Plan to Unscrew the Suburbs of Boone

Sen. Dan Soucek has introduced a bill in the NC State Senate on May 31, 2012 that would affect only the town of Boone, a town which he represents, instead of a bill that would affect other areas of NC of which he is not a representative. Senate Bill 949 reads as follows:


The General Assembly of North Carolina enacts:

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Town of Boone shall not exercise any powers of extraterritorial jurisdiction as provided in Article 19 of Chapter 160A of the General Statutes.

This act is effective when it becomes law.”

It’s so refreshing to have a senator who is willing to put a stop to the long-time “power-grab” that has been plaguing the citizens of the extraterritorial jurisdictions of the town of Boone.

Undesirable development and urban sprawl has encroached into the rural fringes and steadily destroyed surrounding farms. This undesirable growth, a fact of life, brought with it a small flock of urbanites that are enamored with controlling the uses of land around them and have little or no respect for the property rights of others.

Not too many years ago, a very small fraction of the residents of the ‘Roby Greene’ ETJ requested the county commissioners’ approval to have an arbitrarily selected area taken into the extended jurisdiction of the town of Boone for the purpose of controlling one parcel of land. This faction was led by a group called Blue Ridge Environmental Defense League (BREDL). Their leader was an Ashe county resident who presented himself as an expert before the county commissioners on numerous occasions, another ‘Al Gore’. It is said of the group: “CAP prompted the Town of Boone to invoke its extra territorial jurisdiction and the site is now zoned to prohibit heavy industry. Two years of grassroots organizing by Citizens Against Pollution (CAP) and BREDL prevented an asphalt plant in an unzoned community in Watauga County, on the banks of the New River.” Actually, the town of Boone could not “invoke” authority in the ‘Roby Greene’ area without the blessing of the county commissioners. Unfortunately, the county commissioners made a mistake which they have lamented ever since. And with a flick of the wrist of our county commissioners, that property owner, neighboring farmers and other property owners were crippled financially by the town of Boone’s Unified Development Ordinance and the appointed goons who administer the ordinance.

Deborah Greene said...

Part II

These urbanite residents originally came into the Seven Oaks subdivision, willingly into an area without zoning and of their own accord, knowing there was a neighboring family dairy farm; a producer of food. The cows smelled so they complained and harassed the farmer and his family until the dairy closed. Then the farmer decided to lease his land for use as the Watauga County fairgrounds. The Seven Oaks’ residents didn’t like the fairgrounds so they successfully got a Carnival ordinance passed in the county. Then the farmer leased his land for a racetrack. They again complained and harassed the farmer until the racetrack was closed. Then the farmer was offered a lease to put up a temporary asphalt plant. It is said of the situation: “In July 1998 BREDL challenged the state with a request for a ruling on toxic emissions from asphalt plants. Citizens pushed for New River to be named the premier American Heritage River, and President Clinton made the designation in person in July. On August 8 Dr. Ravindra Nadkarni, author of two parts of the national Clean Air Act, testified against the air permit at the NC DAQ public hearing in Boone. Ultimately, the state issued a permit which required a year of meteorological studies before the plant could open.”

Even though the NC Department of Environmental Resources disputed all of this urbanite faction’s claims about lethal air and water quality, this faction was able to get a moratorium on polluting industries passed by the county: asphalt plants, chip mills and diesel generating plants. With the moratorium scheduled to expire, this urbanite faction initiated step two, county wide zoning under the auspices of a “High Impact Land Use Ordinance”. It was defeated when 300 rural residents descended upon the courthouse saying no to an ordinance that read: “This ordinance covers all land, all buildings and the uses of all land and all buildings in the jurisdiction of Watauga County.” Of course the urbanites, mainly ASU students and professors, came out to tell the rural people that they knew better how to control the rural citizen’s land. However, the rural people turned out not to be as backwards and stupid as the urbanites had thought. One of the urbanites was overheard saying: “The opposition is well-organized.” Strength in the knowledge of the facts and a strong will to protect “life, liberty and pursuit of happiness’’ was mistaken for ‘well-organized sheep’.

Deborah Greene said...

Part III

Most, if not an overwhelming majority, of the property within the ETJ is controlled by citizens who live on a very small fraction of the property; urbanites controlling rural farmland. While some rural land owner voluntarily sold the land upon which their subdivision was built, they now want to control the farmland around them; it is, to them, their private view shed and playground. They monitor the area regularly and off to court they go at the least hint of an infraction.

We appreciate the current and former county commissioners who have pointed out the injustice: The inability of the ETJ citizens to vote in the elections that place government officials in power who devise crippling legislation and appoint goons/bullies intent on keeping down the rural people and taking control of their property. We sincerely hope and are confident that Jonathan Jordan will introduce a similar bill that will put a stop to this onerous legislation and crippling control without representation. These government officials have long held that the residents of the ETJ should be able to vote in the town elections. The town of Boone knows full well that only a mere fraction of the citizens in the ETJ are opposed to their onerous crippling legislation and tired of their goons/bullies. And, if this overwhelming opposition to their onerous legislation and crippling practices were allowed to vote, things would be much different. The town of Boone took their suppression one step further by stripping the county commissioners of their sovereign ability to make appointments to the board that administers the UDO.

So, our representatives who preach less government are putting their words to action. They are removing a layer of government that ‘lords’ over a group of people, a layer of government that is not elected by these people. Our representatives have heard the pleas for help from these suppressed people. Isn’t it refreshing to have representatives who are willing to go against that spoiled vocal minority to benefit the majority with a mere “stroke of the wrist”? And, with a stroke of the wrist, the ETJ will be protected by the High Impact Land Use Ordinance of Watauga County which is administered by the county commissioners (absent appointed goons) whom the residents have the right to vote in or out of office. So, with a few words and just a mere “stroke of the wrist”, Senator Dan Soucek has demonstrated the tenacity to do the right thing once again.

What is ironic is we have so-called ‘conservatives’ amongst this controlling faction who can’t see the forest for the trees. Freedom, private property rights, is at the very core of the issue. The following is a representative quote from a participant in the recent Citizens Plan for Watauga: “Watauga County must make it possible for people in the ETJ to vote for the people that affect the use of their land. It is UNAMERICAN that we cannot.” And, with a “stroke of the wrist” our representatives do away with this un-American practice.

Thank you Sen. Soucek for boldly answering the pleas of citizens who represent the voice of the overwhelming majority of rural landowners trapped in town of Boone’s ETJ snare.

Johnny said...

I live on the western end in the ETJ. I can assure you I do not support Soucek's bill and would have told him so if he ever bothered to ask my opinion. He is screwing over people who bought their property in good faith that there were aoning protections. I'm assuming he will have the state legislature refund my loss in equity.

Johnny said...

We'll never know how the majority of those living in the ETJ feel, will we Ms. Greene, since Soucek never held a hearing or consulted any of us.

Lennie said...

Ms. Greene, you forgot to include the fact that you rallied for and voted for increased government intrusion, just a month ago.

ETJ Resident said...

"We'll never know how the majority of those living in the ETJ feel, will we Ms. Greene, since Soucek never held a hearing or consulted any of us.

You are so right Johnny. The only people's opinion that he seems to have consulted with are those powerful builders who would put our whole county under concrete if they could.

Anonymous said...

DG, is your home in the ETJ? I am trying to understand how you are so involved in this.

I believe that the people who live in the ETJ are the ones who will be impacted. I would like to see them be able to vote on whether or not they wish to remain in the ETJ.

Maybe it would take separate votes for different ETJ areas but I am fairly certain that, among those who live in the ETJ, the majority support keeping the protections they have.

NewGuy said...

HCPresshas a new article on this...

Hopefully there can be some middle ground found where the homeowners can still be protected. Annexing some of the current ETJ as suggested by Mayor Clawson might work for least they would then have a vote!....Or maybe the county could set aside some of the existing ETJ areas for "spot zoning" and enforce that zoning so that homeowners in the residential neighborhoods don't have to worry about an asphalt plant being built next door to them!

In any case, if there is to be an ETJ then residents of that ETJ should be entitled to vote in town elections. It seems un-American to me to subject me to regulation where I have no voice in electing the political leaders.

Retort said...

Part the First.

Ms. Greene, a couple thoughts in reply.

So I see you are trotting out a new wedge here: The URBANITES. I really appreciate the biblical nature of this attack. Perhaps these bellicose "urbanites" are distantly related to the Amorites, Hittites, Jebusites, or Israelites? Urbanites? Not all civic debate has to take the form of a bible story, you know.

I can only hope that most of my fellow North Carolinians, possessed of a good dose of common sense and fair-mindedness, will see this rhetorical ploy for exactly what it is: Another attempt to divide people with labels, and reap the whirlwind of that division. Hey! You 'good rural people," you 'farmers' who 'grow food,' you 'rural residents' -- beware the 'urbanites' with their 'factions' and their 'goons!' Coming soon: Everyone Deborah Greene disagrees with will be labeled an 'urbanite.' Please. Folks, this kind of garbage only works if you choose to buy into it. I know a lot of reasonable, thoughtful people who live in the county, and in the ETJ, and I know a lot of morons who live in the Town of Boone (I'm sure many folks count me among them). I also know a few idiots out in the county, and some very wise folks who live in town. Here's a thought -- maybe how smart you are or your intrinsic worth as an American isn't determined by which side of a corporate limit you live on? My point is that you should certainly beware the snake-oil salesman who tries to make it simpler for you than that. You know, arguments like "county=good=farmer=rural=suppressed" vs "town=evil=professor=urbanite=lords." Ms Greene, do you have a night job writing comic books or something?

If your argument had any more substance than that of the most craven political consultant, you also wouldn't refer to ANY of your fellow Wataugans as "goons." I've served on a town commission in the past, and it takes a lot of work, a lot of reading, a lot of preparation, a lot of driving out to sites, knocking on doors, and talking to surrounding residents, property owners, and developers about their needs and concerns. This is what rational people refer to as "participating in the democratic system of government" and "committing some time in your life to engage in public service." You know, like Jeff Templeton is doing right now as one of the ETJ members on the Town of Boone Planning Commission. I bet he doesn't appreciate you calling him a "goon." I wouldn't.

This sentence in Part III above also gave me pause: "The town of Boone took their suppression one step further by stripping the county commissioners of their sovereign ability to make appointments to the board that administers the UDO." This is not the truth, and what's worse, you must know it. The Town of Boone Planning Commission (packed with those "appointed goons" you keep referring to) handed up exactly the right recommendation to the Town Council on this matter-- that the County should continue to appoint ETJ reps to all boards and commissions. Furthermore, you know it. You were at the meeting. Now, by the point this issue got to the Planning Commission, a political test of wills was going on, and it took one more month for the dust to settle. The Commissioners agreed to not do stupid things like appoint ETJ reps who don't even live in the ETJ, and the Council agreed not to do stupid things like parsing words in the NC General Statute to make their own appointment when they felt no "qualified" applicants were put forth. Problem solved. Reasonable people working it out, eventually. If you don't remember, just check the minutes. You've got the chops for that. I must say though, that your rather casual relationship with the truth concerns me, especially as you are currently running for public office.

Retort said...

Part the Second.

I'd also like to address something I've read over and over since this S949 came about. You mentioned it: "Watauga County must make it possible for people in the ETJ to vote for the people that affect the use of their land. It is UNAMERICAN that we cannot.” To this end, I'd refer you to a US Supreme Court case from 1978-- Holt Civic Club v City of Tuscaloosa, AL. The majority opinion was written by William Rehnquist, who you may recall was appointed to the Supreme court by President Richard Nixon and elevated to Chief Justice by President Ronald Reagan. Not exactly a cadre of "liberals" or, to use Ms. Greene's term, "goons." Justice Rehnquist held that the constitutional guarantees of due process and equal protection under the 14th amendment are NOT violated when states grant municipalities extraterritorial jurisdiction without extending the right to vote in municipal elections to those residents of the ETJ. The case is online and you can read the full argument and opinions.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong. It's just the current law, handed down from the highest court in the land, and I like to think we're a nation of laws. You are certainly free to challenge them, as is any American who has the means to do so. It just seems a little disingenuous for local conservatives to keep bringing up this "we're suppressed" and "we can't vote in town elections" argument, when the law creating that state of affairs was put in place by conservatives; it's "stare decisis" as they say, settled law for going on 35 years. Perhaps Senator Soucek's bill will be the first step of many for this concept to be revisited at the highest levels. It's a long road.

I do empathize with Blogger's concern about ETJ homeowners losing their hard-fought land use protections for their R-1 neighborhood. Aside from the issues of livability and safety that Blogger pointed out, a large part of many people's net worth is tied up in their home, and losing land use protections does not bode well for its value. I hope for the ETJ homeowner's sake, that something can be worked out. The current state of affairs is akin to a proposal to amputate a patient's leg because of an in-grown toenail.

Lastly, and this is solely personal opinion-- I hope the voters of Watauga County do not allow Ms Greene anywhere near the membership of the Board of Education. Unless, of course, the objective is to introduce a healthy dose of division, name-calling, and demagoguery. We can do better. Thanks for reading.

guy faulkes said...

The blame is being placed with the wrong party. The issue is not with zoning or Soucek. It is with the town abusing its power and not being legitimate in its enforcement procedures. All Soucek is doing is trying to make the town conform to its own rules.

This is unfortunate because all ETJ's should be eliminated until the residents in them are allowed to vote in municipal elections in order to choose those that govern them.

guy faulkes said...

It has just crossed my mind after reading New Guy's post,that
ETJ's may not be necessary for communities such as Blogger's. Local zoning is available without an ETJ. Take Foscoe and Valle Cruis for examples. The citizens in the area can set up local zoning for themselves, if the residents of the area so desire. However, this does require the consent of those being governed so some may find this option unattractive.

This might be desirable as then you would not need to worry about bureaucrats for whom you have no voting privileges cutting your throat as Boone has with the residents of the ETJ.

As far as Boone's ETJ is concerned, power that is abused must be removed.

Samuel said...

Spot zoning is illegal. I am in the ETJ and for the first time in my entire life I am agreeing with Clawson. I never thought I'd see the day. Dan never consulted any of us, and he has no idea how badly ETJ areas need protection. He has not only lost my vote. He's lost my respect.

NewGuy said...

Samuel...I don't think it's illegal. I don't know the details but I believe they have (as Guy Faulkes mentioned) spot zoning in Foscoe and Valle Crucis.
At least if there was some controls on land use that were established and enforced by the county, there would be some direct accountability to the voters of the area being controlled.

To tell someone that doesn't live in the town that they can't cut a tree on their own property without town permission, while at the same time telling them that they have no voice in selecting the "leaders" that create these mandates, just doesn't sit well with me.

On the other hand, I understand and agree with Bloggers position and the people in the Roby Green area who want some protection. They should have some property rights too!

Another ETJer said...

Boone is a unique town. There are ten thousand adolescents and barely out of adolescence who move in among the few adults left in the town. If Boone did not have zoning, the city would be unlivable. Think about that Dan Soucek.

GHJames said...

Not only have I voted for Dan Soucek I have also voted for Jordan, Miller, Gable, and Blust.

Soucek lost my vote for pulling the same "scratch my back" ethical crap that Deal and the previous commissioners have with Miller. Jordan has lost my vote for not stopping it. Miller has lost my vote for not recusing himself during this whole process. Unless Gable and Blust get on board with stopping this they may very well lose my support.

Anonymous said...

GHJames said it for me as well. Regardless of the ETJ issue itself, this whole thing is about corruption and back door dealing. Miller showing up at that meeting was telling since, if what the papers report is true, he is actually representing someone who is involved legally in the Roby Greene issue. Soucek's motives are also clear. He never told the Town he was going to introduce a bill the very next day and never sought public input and showed up with Templeton and others. What happened to our elected officials? I thought we were getting rid of this sort of back door bullcrap in the last election. It certainly didn't take long for our guys to step right up to the same plate.

Anonymous said...

If there is no zoning in the ETJ we're headed for nothing but one huge student apartment complex after another. And I'll add that I don't think students like living in that kind of situation any more than any one else, but that's exactly what we'll have. So thanks for nothing, Soucek. You're a loser and have dragged the rest of us down with you.

Wolf's Head said...

ETJs are an abomination.

They place people's property, businesses and lives under politicians they cannot vote for, requires them to pay taxes to a government that doesn't provide them the services other county residents have, such as the county planning office.

They should be abolished state wide.

NewGuy said...

I don't believe that ETJ residents pay any taxes that the rest of the county residents don't pay. Yes, probably more in fees for building permits, etc when they deal with the town, but I don't think their taxes are higher.

Anonymous said...

I live in the ETJ, and I am very thankful for the opportunity I got to weigh in on a planned development near our neighborhood. The project moved forward, but not until all nearby residents had a chance to weigh in and make the project much, much better, with good buffers, etc for our neighborhood. So I would disagree with Wolf that ETJs are an abomination. Mine certainly isn't. I am very fearful of losing it. I don't pay town taxes. None of us in the ETJ do. I like the setup as is where I don't have to pay town taxes and yet am afforded these protections. Perhaps Wolf should walk a day in my shoes.

Anonymous said...

Don't confuse him with facts.

guy faulkes said...

ETJ's, as they now exist, turn people into subjects, serfs, or slaves instead of citizens. If you cannot run for office or even vote for those that govern you, you have been disenfranchised.

The abuse of power by the Town of Boone is the culprit, not Soucek. The fault with Soucek is that his bill did not force any remaining ETJ's to allow residents within them to vote and run for office.

Maybe this could be an amendment added to the bill.

Wolf's Head said...

don't believe that ETJ residents pay any taxes that the rest of the county residents don't pay. Yes, probably more in fees for building permits, etc when they deal with the town, but I don't think their taxes are higher. New Guy

NOT what I wrote.

ETJ residents pay the same taxes as other COUNTY residents, but cannot use the Planning Office that they pay taxes to support.

TOWN RESIDENTS pay taxes to support a Town Planning Office that is used to regulate properties that don't pay taxes to the Town as well as regulating their own peoperties.

Had enough said...

Wolfe and Guy before you keep on armchair bloviating about life in R1 zones of ETJ, why don't you go out and talk to some of the people. You two are clueless and are just talking philosophy not real life.

guy faulkes said...

I, personally, do not have any problem with certain aspects of zoning, as long as it is regulated fairly. I have a problem with the abuses that are regularly done by the Town of Boone. These abuses are well documented and undeniable, Had Enough.

Do you want to be a disenfranchised subject, serf, or slave?

I have talked with many people in R1 neighborhoods that do not like zoning at all. Most of them wanted to convert to multifamily rental units. (There would be no problem with this if noise ordinances, etc were enforced so as to address the problem rather than trying to outlaw use instead of objectionable behavior.) They have as much right to their opinions as the not in my back yard crowd and deserve to be able to vote their beliefs.

The difference in your opinion on zoning is whether it is you or your neighbor that wants to do something. This statement defines real life.

Wolf's Head said...

This discussion on zoning is all about control.

Some people don't like their neighbors and want somebody to control their neighbors lives for their own benefit.

These same people usually don't care about freedom or right or wrong they just want their neighbors to STOP!

Your neighbors have rights also.

The ETJs take in people who have never done you any supposed harm and places them under constraints you may not even know about. And these constraints may change to even your detriment.

Mighty neighborly of you.

Deborah Greene said...

New guy proposes county zoning in the firm of spot zoning, is this correct?

Anonymous said...

New Guy, are you in favor of "spot zoning"?

If you are, and if this got out, then you are a cooked goose, electionwise, which is fine with me.

NewGuy said...

Deborah...Yes, substantially correct. I am in favor of protecting homeowners from asphalt plants being built next door. At the same time, I am (in principal) opposed to people being regulated by a town government where they have no vote....Spot zoning seems to be a reasonable compromise for those in the ETJ who prefer to retain some degree of protection.

If you read Bloggers opening post, he pretty much reflects my feelings on the matter - although I am not directly effected as he is.

I believe that some sort of compromise will be reached on this issue - spot zoning is one possibility.

Anonymous said...

All you alleged conservatives, either you believe in property righs or you don't.

All you so-called Republican urbanite hypocrites, either you are advocates for property rights or you want to control property everywhere, even in the rural areas.

And total control of the entire county is the ultimate goal of all the control freaks, whether progressives or fascists.

It's really about urban and suburban vs. rural.

ETJer said...

Guy wrote: "Most of them wanted to convert to multifamily rental units."
Ok Guy, my neighbor can build a multiplex--fill it with students--call it Animal House. Then I will turn my lot into a pig farm and move away. We will call it Animal Farm. After all people should be able to do whatever they want with their property shouldn't they. Who needs protection?

ETJer said...

New Guy, I hope you can talk to your friends on the commission about your idea of spot zoning. It could work.

guy faulkes said...

What are your concerns with your neighbor;s multiples, ETJer?

Is it the fact that people that are not related will live in the same building? How does this differ from people that are not related living on the same street?

Let us discuss your Animal House example. You are afraid of noise, junk, traffic pressure, etc. Instead of addressing what you are really concerned with, you had rather try to abolish a use,even though you are doing the exact same use in a slightly different form. Both you and those in a multifamily building are living.

Why do you not use general ordinances, many of which already exist, to control objectionable behavior instead of discriminating against people. There are noise ordinances, laws that determine how many parking places are needed per unit (How many cars are there in your family and how many drive? How many parking spaces do you have? Should this be controlled?), speed limits, junk ordinances, public drunkenness ordinances, etc.

Could it be that both the town and you are to lazy to control criminal acts rather than discriminate against people and property rights?

guy faulkes said...

Should be multiplex, not multiplies.

Also, are you saying those that want to use their property for something you do not like should not have a right to the political process in order to change it? What happens if the Town zones your ETJ property into something you do not like?

Deborah said...

It is the real true conservative representation that is supported by the rural Republican base. We support Dan Soucek.

To Tommy Adams. It is unfortunate that you didn't support the marriage amendment and it is even more unfortunate that you are in support of zoning. However, at least you have finally taken a position(not openly of course; blogs are great for those candidates who want to test the waters and attempt to catch with the wind).

I will have to agree with one of the bloggers that not to very long ago said you didn't represent the area of Beaver Dam, Mountain Dale, etc. They were absolutely correct.

During the Primary over 52% of the
registered voters in that area voted and over 89% voted for the marriage amendment. And, in 2002 when the Republican Party took everything, "no zoning", is what they road in on. You want be riding in on that train.

As for whether I think you should be vice-chair of the Republican Party, the Republican Party has been at odds with the rural people for a long time. Your leadership is just a testament as to how far down the Republican Party has sunk.

The Republican Party has been able to rely on the rural people to get even the "lack luster", "mediocre" candidates elected in the past. However, this is the year for ASU to vote in Democrats. All indications are that you are focused on that train which is clearly your only choice.

To Yates, don't let the Republican Party use you to attempt to get "mediocre" candidates in office,run with a strong candidate, run with Dan Soucek. And, take your campaign into the County. Allen Trivette's 194 Tire is the Meat Camp headquarters for conservative candidates only (others not welcome). We had a meeting about you this morning; you have our support. Please bring signs, bumper stickers, etc. and we will get the vote out. You need meetings or want to attend meetings organized in the rural area, we'll get it done.

Anonymous said...

Deborah, very good statements.

But even supporting Yates is a risk.

Anonymous said...

I recall not to long ago us conservatives lost the election because of corruption. One man's ambulance service cost us the whole election.

We're walking down the same path right now.

Deborah Greene said...

Our property is next in line for ETJ intrusion.

I am a conservative and property rights advocate.

Your me voting for more government is not true. I voted got less government and transfer of power to the people.

I am not a sheep being led to the edge of the cliff.

Deborah Greene said...

Town can all the zoning it wants to vote in. Just keep it there.

Deborah Greene said...

Subdivisions have there own set of zoning rules.

Property rights are fundamental to me.

Plain and simple. Either you are a conservative or liberal or half breed. I'm a conservative,

Deborah Greene said...

The rural people have been saying it for a long time, what Republican Party? There isn't one.

Deborah Greene said...

The farmers, the viewsheds, are the ones who suffer. It is all about controlling the one with the most land for those who live in zoned subdivisions who want to control everyone else because they think they are superior and are deserving of such special treatment and control over others instead. It is akin to licensed theft.

Deborah greene said...

Zoning 101?

Question 1: is ASU subject to zoning laws?

LoneStar said...

Deborah is the only person defending Dan. She's Wolfs Head, guy faulkes, and several Anonymous. Typical of DG. She's the reason Reps can't hold on to anything.

Anonymous said...

What makes you think your property is next in line for ETJ, Deborah? It's not. The town has a long-range (very long range) projected growth plan, and your property is not in it. Also, it's a joke your comment "I voted got less government and transfer of power to the people." The power to the people part is exactly where Soucek has fallen short by not even asking for the people's opinion but instead acting on behalf of a handful of self-interested powerful people who don't give a darn what they do to others as long as they get what they want.

Deborah Greene said...

Someone forwarded to me an excellent educational email from Boone Tea Party.

Deborah Greene said...

Zoning 101

Question 2: May the county commissioners pass a land use ordinance that completely disallows an asphalt plant in Watauga County?

The answer to question 1 is no. Let's see if you know the answer to this one.

I am the only conservative on this blog that is why I am the only one supporting Dan Soucek. The rest if you think you are conservative.

guy faulkes said...

LoneStar, your statement makes you look like an idiot. For how long have you visited this blog? When did the Wolf and I start posting here? When did Deborah Greene?

Are you really LPOV?

And no, Deborah, you are not the only conservative here. There are many. Most of us support Soucek.

We just do not all agree all the time. If we did, we would probably be liberals that cannot think for themselves.

Anonymous said...

guy, your not fooling anyone. you (DG) look very desperate.

guy faulkes said...

Blogger, you do not have to worry. The Democrat is reporting the Republican leadership is killing the ETJ bill by moving it into committee.

They are trying to do the same thing with the bill allowing concealed carry in restaurants.

They may get away with the ETJ bill, but the restaurant bill will cost them some seats, if it does not get to the floor.

I had hoped for better from them..

Nobody said...

Guy and Wolf's Head have been posting here since this blog's inception. I started visiting about six months later. DG has only been posting here for less than a year. Read the archived posts if you need proof. I'm amazed how people who who are new here and will not choose a screen name (remaining anonymous in the process) act as if they know everything.

Anonymous said...

Nobody, do you think there should be a seniority list here of who gets to post or not?

And I ask you the same question I asked Sark, how does calling your self "Nobody" make you any less anonymous then "Sark" calling himself a Texan or me calling my self a space alien ?

Deborah Greene said...

Conservatives strongly believe in property rights!

Conservatives know that zoning is to keep the poor down and only the rich have the money to take these unconstitutional crippling laws through the court system.

What are your ages? Were you part of the Dumbing Down of America

The answer to question 2 was NO! Asphalt plants cannot be banned altogether. A moratorium must be temporary until the land use regulations are established. The High Impact Land Use ordinance for Watauga County was targeting asphalt plants (the others were added for legal reason). In particular, it came about because of the asphalt plant in the Seven Oaks ETJ area before the county commissioners sanctioned the taking by the town of Boone. A group of citizens, anti-zoning and pro-zoning, came together and met for months. The result was the High Impact Land Use ordinance. Now someone in Seven Oaks has asked Joe Furman, the Planning Czar for Watauga County, whether the ordinance will cover an asphalt plant in the Seven Oaks area and was told no. So, it appears that a board of citizens and elected officials (Sue Sweeting - commissioner at the time, Pam Williamson, zoning and UDO framer were among the group). It appears that they didn't find anything wrong with an asphalt plant in that area. And, neither did DENR.

Question 3: Do any of you know the origin of zoning?

(Recommend: NC Legislative Aspects of Zoning by NC Institute of Government. After reading the court cases, let me know if you are still a proponent of zoning.)

I'll see if I can find a book entitled: "Conservative Values for Idiots"

Nobody said...


You have a serious reading comprehension problem. I never said there should be a "seniority list" or that no one could post here -- that decision rests with those who run the blog. However, if you are the anonymous who has made claims that DG is Guy and Wolf and New Guy and Nobody (me), then I'm telling you you're wrong and pointed you to the archives to check them out. And the point of choosing a screen name and sticking with it is that the other regular posters here become familiar with you and your thoughts, positions, style of writing, etc based on your screen name. I am familiar with Guy, Wolf, Blogger, New Guy, Sark, Reader, Johnny Rico, even LibPOV (much to my chagrin). I don't know any of them personally, so yes, they are all anonymous to me and I believe I am anonymous to them. But at least when I see the name of the poster, I know more or less what their positions are. You have to admit that with several different anonymous posters, one cannot develop any sense of familiarity with those writers or which one they are addressing at any given time. Can you just not think of fictional name to adopt here or are you too lazy to try?

Nobody said...

"You might like to mention that the Republican Party choose (sic) to delete all posts by LPOV rather than engage in a thoughtful respectful debate and completion (sic - competition?) of ideas.
LPOV was onto the Republican strategy of scapegoats, bigotry and fear as political tools. Censorship became the Republican tool here."

This blog is not the Republican Party. You might like to remember that the majority of your posts were copied and pasted over, and over, and over, and that the majority of those were simply name-calling rants that added nothing but always mentioned "scapegoating, fear, bigoty, racism, fascists, and on and on and on. You might also recall that YOU offered to leave here if you were ever politely asked to leave -- how's that going? Do you recall the back and forth we had last year over "popular sovereignty?" PLEASE, do not reopen that can of worms. For you newbies, I was arguing that popular sovereignty, a term taught in high school civics classes and college American government classes meaning "the right of the people to rule themselves" was a basic American principle. Lib googled popular sovereignty, read a page that discussed how popular sovereignty was used in the 19th century to justify slavery before the civil war and decided that popular sovereignty as a concept was evil and had no part in American government. We literally went back and forth for days and dozens of posts, me trying to educate poor Lib on a basic American political value and that just because it was used to argue for southern states to decide for themselves the slave question did not mean that popular sovereignty had no place today. Poor Lib kept repeating himself, stating emphatically that I was racist because I supported the right of Americans to rule themselves through free and regular elections.

To everyone else: Sorry if I fed the troll -- there are some here who feel like this blog is repressive because Lib's posts are removed but are not familiar with the reasons why. I would encourage them to read through the archives to get an idea of Lib's history here.

Sarkazein said...

A'mouse said-"And I ask you the same question I asked Sark, how does calling your self "Nobody" make you any less anonymous then "Sark" calling himself a Texan or me calling my self a space alien ?"

No, that was another A'mouse that asked me that, not you.

The REAL anonymous said...

Why would anonymous ask Sark about calling himself "nobody". I thought he only called himself Sarkazian.

"And I ask you the same question I asked Sark, how does calling your self "Nobody" make you any less anonymous......"

Anonymous said...


Nobody said...

Real Nonnymouse,
Again I say, you have a serious reading comprehension problem. Reread my earlier post. The answer to your question is there. I think that you are just too lazy to pick a name since you apparently are too lazy to thoroughly read a post. Perhaps you are simply being intentionally dense in order to have a little fun?

guy faulkes said...

The best thing to do is to ignore the trolls. They cannot debate an issue so they play games with accusations. The long time members of this blog know the truth and newcomers with any reading comprehension will soon be able to determine the writing styles of the various posters. If they do not have something to say on topic, ignore them.

This is the reason it was apparent there were three different people posting as LPOV. As a matter of fact the elusive Anonymous is most likely LPOV3.

Deborah Greene said...

Zoning originated in New York to separate races.

Private property rights to the real conservative is necessary to a free capitalist society. Zoning came into the ETJ of Roby Greene area to stop 1 landowner from getting the best use out of his property. When a faction failed to stop this owner through the sea of environmental regulations, they decided went to the totalitarian town of Boone to use the UDO to zone the land as agriculture. This faction claimed that their land values would be diminished by the asphalt plant. So, in exchange for what their property values, they crippled the another property owner.

Community councils were used in the same way in Valle Crucis. An, affluent subdivision was included in the area laid out to add enough individual homeowners to control the use of open farmland.

A farmer's land is usually his only asset. If something happens requiring the family to sale the farm, why should the farmer be penalized because he didn't sell his land to the developer who first brought the urbanites in who came, who saw and who decided to conquer?

Anonymous said...

You do have to wonder about the zoning of the Robey Greene Road area. At the time there was already a race track and a lumber operation going on in the area. Why would a asphalt plant be out of order with the uses already going on?

Yes there were house in the area, but there are houses in the area of everything.

Wolf's Head said...

Here is an article that defines the property rights issue.

For the uninitiated a "Mozambique Drill" is 2 shots to the body and one to the head.

Abrogation of property rights limits everyone's freedom.

I do not endorse this article, but provide it for information only.

Anonymous said...

In the Watauga Democrat last week was the article titled “Boone ETJ bill pulled from Senate floor.” In the article Dan Soucek states, “I introduced the bill to call attention to clear abuses by the town of Boone in its ETJ, stating it is unfair for the town to extend its ETJ to areas it cannot feasibly annex or provide with services anytime soon, leaving property owners in limbo.” Doesn’t Dan sound like such a caring person! For those of you who don’t know what the ETJ is set in place to do this is how the Watauga Democrat explained it, “An ETJ is a defined area subject to a town's land use (zoning) regulations, including the types of property uses permitted. Since 1959, North Carolina towns of more than 2,500 in population have had authority to create extraterritorial jurisdictions up to one mile outside city limits.” Dan wants us citizens of Watauga County to only think that he is concerned about the poor property owners who can’t get water or sewer priveleges even though they are in the ETJ. That is the basis that Dan Soucek is basing Senate Bill 949 on, but it is only, HALF THE TRUTH!
What Dan is not telling the other fine Senators in Raleigh or his fellow Wataugans is that there is another agenda behind his bill. In the 1990s the neighborhood Seven Oaks fought tooth and nail to keep Maymead from building an asphalt plant just off Roby Greene Rd out by the old fair grounds and only a hop, skip, and a jump from the South Fork of the New River. Luckily they won the battle. If Dan Soucek gets this bill passed through the Senate , the Roby Greene area residents will have much less of a chance of postponing Maymead from taking up permanent full operating status there. Already for the past two years Maymead has been operating and running machines under the zoning laws that are currently in place due to ETJ jurisdiction zoning laws. Even with the current ETJ zoning laws in place they have been using machinery that is larger than what they are supposed to be using and the noise decibels that they make on the work site on a daily basis is well above that which is mandated under their zoning restrictions. Residents throughout the Roby Greene Road area have placed complaints with Boone town officials. There basic thought has been, look guys there is no plant there, so be thankful. NOW if Dan Soucek carelessly or purposefully takes that benefit away from ETJ members, then Maymead could be fully operational on Roby Greene within a year. Wow, if they break zoning laws now, imagine what they will do when no one has any regulations over them! AND if that is not enough, recently Boone Concrete had to close temporarily because it had received so many violation notifications and fines from the town of Boone concerning its facility and business practices there. Luckily the residents next door in the neighborhood of Seven Oaks had the protection of the Boone ETJ laws to protect them from the socially and environmentally irresponsible work place practices of Boone Concrete. Again if Dan Soucek gets bill 949 passed in the Senate then Boone Concrete will no longer be restricted to any work place violations under the jurisdiction of the town of Boone. The members of the ETJ will have no one to protect them from socially and environmentally irresponsible businesses. To add icing to the cake, IF BILL 949 passes ALL of Boone Concrete’s violations and fines will become null and void and they will be able to quickly re-open and have no one to tell them locally what they can and cannot do!!
Dan are you really for protecting the local homeowners who live in the ETJ or are you out to pull the wool over the eyes of the sheep who so innocently and blindly follow you on your word? Tell the truth behind why you want to abolish the ETJ jurisdiction of Boone. Don’t be fooled my fellow citizens of Watauga County, if bill 949 is passed you could be the next area that is over taken by corporate irresponsible Pharisees, (because they’re not fair, you see)! Shame on you Dan Soucek…
Concerned Citizen