This blog originally founded by Blogger who holds a theological degree and a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Taught Psychology for 32 years and is now Professor Emeritus. Is a board-certified psychologist and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in his profession. Ministered as a chaplain, and pastored Baptist and Episcopal churches. Publications cover the integration of psychology and theology. Served in the Army, the Merchant Marines and the Peace Corps.

Friday, July 27, 2012

Can we afford 4 more years?

 From Ann Coulters Column click here



Democrats’ ideal voter: Illegal alien, convicted felon


Before taking the oath of office, Barack Obama vowed to fundamentally transform the United States. He has certainly done so. For example, Obama has:
– destroyed the job market;
– sent billions of taxpayer dollars to Wall Street, companies overseas, his campaign contributors and public sector unions;
– forced the passage of a wildly unpopular national health care law on a purely partisan vote;
– come out for gay marriage;
– refused to enforce laws on illegal immigration;
– eliminated the work requirement for welfare.
How can a country that elected Ronald Reagan have Obama tied in the polls with Mitt Romney?
The answer is: It’s not the same country.

87 comments:

Anonymous said...

A good column by Couler, as usual. We aren't supposed to point these things out tho. If you mention single mothers, the welfare system and their connection to crime rates, you are usually just branded a racist.

USS Sheppard said...

– destroyed the job market: Unemployment spiked at 10% in 2009, it is now 8.2%. Nearly 4 and a half million private sector jobs added in the past 2 and a half years. Hardly "destroyed".

– sent billions of taxpayer dollars to Wall Street, companies overseas, his campaign contributors and public sector unions: Yeah, not cool.

– forced the passage of a wildly unpopular national health care law on a purely partisan vote: Public support for the individual provisions of the ACA range from 51% to over 80%. The "individual mandate" is the only provision to score lowly, 66% don't like it. Not quite "wildly unpopular".

– come out for gay marriage: Yup. Stupid equal rights. Grrrrr.

– refused to enforce laws on illegal immigration: Kinda. Enforcement agents can be more lenient with charges, and only with certain demographic groups. On the flip side, the Obama administration has set historic deportation records. Deportations are up, over 70%, since 2008.

– eliminated the work requirement for welfare: Not really. The administration is allowing states to apply for a waiver of the work requirement in order to find more effective ways to find work for poor families. It's an attempt to cut through bureaucratic red tape and burdensome governmental reporting. Two of the five states to apply for waivers (NV and UT) are Republican controlled. The call to allow for more efficient alternatives to the TANF "work requirement" was bipartisan in nature.

Gotta love Coulter.

Captain Hanna Kestrel said...

Good spin!

USS Rodger Young said...

And there are idiots out there that actually defend hussein obama! Amazing ignorance.

USS Sheppard said...

You can call me all the names you'd like.

I simply added a greater depth of understanding to Coulter's oversimplified bullet-points. Your inability to deal with that depth is overwhelmingly telling.

Sarkazein said...

USS Shepherd is celebrating all the unemployed who have run out of benefits or given up, or gone into the underground economy. That is the only reason the percentage is down. In 2009, people still had unemployment benefits and hadn't given up, so the percentage is higher. The REAL unemployment is higher now, it just doesn't show in the US Dept Labor's stats.

Not that good of spin by USS Shepherd.

USS Sheppard said...

Ah, those "hidden" workers who have given up. You're right Sark, the U-3 number does not take into account these individuals. But the U-6 metric does (U-6 measures U-3 plus those who have stopped looking for work, marginally attached workers, and part-time workers who want full-time).

The U-6 peaked at 16.8% around the same time as U-3 peaked. It was 14.9% as of July 1. Statistically, about the same reduction in unemployment (18% reduction of U-3, 12% reduction of U-6).

Unfortunately for your pre-determined rhetoric, data is not "spin".

guy faulkes said...

No, data in USSS Shepard's case is statistics that have been adjusted to give the answer he wants. In other words, spun.

USS Sheppard said...

How is it "adjusted", Guy?

Sarkazein said...

USS Shepherd- Obama said he could fix all that in his first term. He said if he couldn't he shouldn't get a second term. You believed him. All we got was $5Trillion more in debt. And the lying bastard is campaigning for a second term.

How can you spin Obama Government Motors having to use subprime financing to boost sales? No lesson learned there apparently.

USS Sheppard said...

"Obama said he could fix all that in his first term. He said if he couldn't he shouldn't get a second term. You believed him." -Sark

Poppycock. I didn't believe it in 2008. The recession was proving to be much too severe. And a large portion of that $5 trillion number has that recession to thank, we had an enormous receipt/outlay problem for a little bit.

But that's an entirely different discussion. I addressed Coulter's myopic points. You chose to counter the "destroyed the job market" rebuttal. It clearly has not been "destroyed". It's improved.

Sarkazein said...

When Obama took office, total employment was about 143,000,000. It is now 139,500,000. Down. He fixed nothing. Coulter is on the money. Out of those 139,500,000 I have heard of many underemployed and part-time in that 139,500,000.

Why would you feel obliged to be proud of his record? It is OK to change.

Sarkazein said...

USS Shepherd- He not only destroyed the job market, he has overseen a huge loss in faith. Many believe his destruction of the job market is here to stay... no hope in other words.

Why do you defend his failure?

Sarkazein said...

USS Shepherd- Then Senator Obama and before that ACORN Obama supported Fannie-mae and its sub-prime lending surge that caused the crisis. True "predatory lending" is lending to someone who probably can't pay it back. Reno threatened lenders if they didn't use predatory lending guidelines. The house of cards collapsed while the democrats partied with Fannie... including Senator Obama.

Why do you support him?

Sarkazein said...

USS Shepherd- The financial crisis/Fannie was the biggest cause of unemployment and foreclosures... Obama owns it, as a Democrat and an ACORN.

This deserves another 4 years in office? Why?

USS Sheppard said...

"Obama took office, total employment was about 143,000,000. It is now 139,500,000." -Sark

I think you added a zero there, Sark. There are about 155 million eligible workers (over 16y/o, not in prison) in the US. By your calculation, the unemployment rate would have been 92% in 2009, and 90% today.

There are actually 12.7 million unemployed right now, down from a peak of 15.2 million in 2009. Again, a 16% reduction in unemployment, which is consistent with the U-3 and U-6 rates I quoted earlier.

USS Sheppard said...

Scratch that. I misread "employment" and "unemployment". My apologies.

Sarkazein said...

USS Shepherd- What you read, then cut and pasted, then proof read, is the total EMPLOYMENT not the total UNemployment.

Sarkazein said...

Accepted, I type slow.

Sarkazein said...

I am wondering also, how the newly disabled appear in the US Labor Depts figures. That's up 20%, do they now count as employed?

Why support the Food Stamp/disability President? What's the attraction?

USS Sheppard said...

Still, the data "adjustment" the Guy claims goes your way. We should be looking at the numbers at the peak of the recession, later in 2009, not at the point Obama stepped into the White House. The recession did not suddenly cede its power just because Obama took the Oath of Office. When he stepped into the position, the unemployment picture was continuing to worsen.

At the peak, employment was around 140 million. Now, its about 143 million. (as measured by U-3)

As for U-6, full-time employment stood at about 129 million at the peak, and 132 million now,

Both better numbers.

Sarkazein said...

He said he could fix it. He made it worse. When he was running for office, you say YOU knew it was worse than HE knew. Is he stupid or ignorant? Millions spent on research and polls to fill him in, and he still couldn't grasp it... but you could without all the help? What does that say? He said it was the worse financial crisis since the Depression in his campaign speeches. I say he knew, but you say he didn't? Why?

Do you ever tire of cutting him slack?

USS Sheppard said...

I chalked it up to campaign rhetoric. But that still doesn't change the fact that the "job market" has not been "destroyed", as Coulter claims.

Better numbers are better numbers.

Sarkazein said...

USS Shepherd- Cut that slack for the Slacker-In-Chief.

Sarkazein said...

You say rhetoric, I say he made up the lie to place blame on others.

Ask THESE PEOPLE what they think about your defense of Obama.

USS Sheppard said...

Sark, whatever you may think about Obama, Coulter's oversimplified bullet point is still wrong.

Sarkazein said...

The next financial crisis may be the student loan program. Obama, in his following of Saul Alinskey, and the other Democrats are doing everything they can to overload that system too. This couldn't be more clear... unless they announced it is what they are doing. But they won't. They don't need to. They don't need to because they have plenty of defenders and apologists out there.

WE have some people who will sit on the sidelines and watch the country turn into ashes and we have people who are trying to turn it into ashes both foreign and domestic. Both economically and terroristically and culturally.

NewGuy said...

U-3 and U-6 are UNEMPLOYMENT numbers.

According to BLS, there are fewer non farm private payroll jobs now than there were when Obama took office.

This isn't to say that Shep's point about the "inertia" of the job trends from the prior administration isn't a valid point. But, numbers are numbers...there are fewer jobs today than there were when he took office.

And, if you want to compare from the time the Dems took control of the house to the time when Republicans regained control ....well, that won't help the Democrat position!

NewGuy said...

Total Private Non Farm Payrolls by month since Obama took office.(in thousands)


Jan-09 1-2009 1 111,404
Feb-09 2-2009 1 110,625
Mar-09 3-2009 1 109,840
Apr-09 4-2009 1 109,196
May-09 5-2009 1 108,746
Jun-09 6-2009 1 108,305
Jul-09 7-2009 0 107,952
Aug-09 8-2009 0 107,736
Sep-09 9-2009 0 107,550
Oct-09 10-2009 0 107,440
Nov-09 11-2009 0 107,290
Dec-09 12-2009 0 107,156
Jan-10 1-2010 0 107,127
Feb-10 2-2010 0 107,153
Mar-10 3-2010 0 107,202
Apr-10 4-2010 0 107,311
May-10 5-2010 0 107,392
Jun-10 6-2010 0 107,443
Jul-10 7-2010 0 107,507
Aug-10 8-2010 0 107,577
Sep-10 9-2010 0 107,594
Oct-10 10-2010 0 107,686
Nov-10 11-2010 0 107,770
Dec-10 12-2010 0 107,983
Jan-11 1-2011 0 108,187
Feb-11 2-2011 0 108,384
Mar-11 3-2011 0 108,583
Apr-11 4-2011 0 108,745
May-11 5-2011 0 108,792
Jun-11 6-2011 0 108,928
Jul-11 7-2011 0 109,053
Aug-11 8-2011 0 109,120
Sep-11 9-2011 0 109,225
Oct-11 10-2011 0 109,367
Nov-11 11-2011 0 109,593
Dec-11 12-2011 0 109,860
Jan-12 1-2012 0 110,042
Feb-12 2-2012 0 110,270
Mar-12 3-2012 0 110,474
Apr-12 4-2012 0 110,586
May-12 p 5-2012 0 110,722
Jun-12 p 6-2012 0 110,898

NewGuy said...

Or...in graph form (by wiki)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/U.S._Employment_Changes_-_Total_Non-Farm_1970_to_Present.png

Maybe Coulter was right?

USS Sheppard said...

"According to BLS, there are fewer non farm private payroll jobs now than there were when Obama took office." -NewGuy

Again, the very moment Obama took office, yes. There are currently 133 million non-farm jobs. As of Jan 20, 2009 there were 133.5 million. But, again, you can't expect anyone to magically fix the jobs picture within seconds of taking office. Therefore, we look at the low-point, during the summer/fall of 2009.

At its lowest, non-farm employment was 129 million. Today, it is 133 million. Better.

Total private employment as of Jan 20, 2009 was 110 million. Today, it is 110 million. But at its lowest (same time frame), it was 106 million. Better.

The category that has taken a hit is public-sector employment. As of Jan 20, 2009, government employment stood at 22.5 million and stayed fairly steady through the summer of 2009 but taking a hit in 2011. It now stands at 21.9 million.

USS Sheppard said...

NewGuy, you claim "according to BLS", then proceed to copy/paste Wikipedia numbers? You need a better source than Wikipedia. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

NewGuy said...

Shep...I provided you with the BLS numbers and THEN I gave you Wiki's graph so that you could see it in another form.

And, I conceded that the "inertia" of the prior trend was a factor. But, the fact remains that Obama's job record is poor. You want to pick a time when he was at his worst and then argue that "See, he's not as bad as he used to be!".

Good luck with that.

Did you notice, by the way, that the improvement came when the new Republican House took over.

Hmmmmmm.....

USS Sheppard said...

"Hmmmmmm" indeed. NewGuy, you are being purposefully obstinate. You now as well as anyone that a President cannot simply buck an employment the moment he takes office. Just because Obama walked into a downward trend doesn't mean he caused it. I have never claimed the current jobs picture to be great. But it's not, as Coulter says, "destroyed". It's actually gotten better (not great, not perfect).

As for employment numbers (total private-sector employment), the improvement began in Feb of 2010 when the economy began adding jobs again. 11 months before the GOP took over the House.

Public-sector employment, however, did take a hit in 2011and began its decrease in Feb of 2011. So that can be attributed to the GOP and the 2010 election cycle.

NewGuy said...

I would expect that SOME of the public sector employment drop came from the loss of the Census jobs....but I do give the Republican congress (and some state government changes) credit for at least SOME of the reduction in public sector employment.

The "job growth" that we have experienced...that is growth from the lowest point in the depths of the recession ....is still not sufficient to accommodate the growth in the work force during the same reference period. Adding 10 jobs to an economy when 11 new people enter the work force, is not going to do it for us!

Coulter says Obama has "destroyed" the job market. Obama says that "The private sector is doing fine!"

I think Coulter is closer to the truth. Readers here will have to decide for themselves who is closer to correct.

USS Sheppard said...

Coulter says Obama has "destroyed" the job market. Obama says that "The private sector is doing fine!" I think Coulter is closer to the truth."

And yet neither is true. Just because you believe one lie to be less untrue than the other doesn't mean it suddenly becomes truth. Coulter lied. You can't defend that.

USS Rodger Young said...

This shepard idiot is trying to say we're doing fine, and there are more jobs out there than ever before. I see more out of work Americans on hussein obama sponsored unemployment than ever before. But this is just an anomaly isn't it shepard? Those U-6 and U-3 metrics are much better indicators than what I see happening around me every day. Rome burns before your eyes while you say it isn't. What a dolt.

The employment numbers - does that include employeed illegal aliens. With 40 million illegal aliens in this country right now, they would skew these numbers wouldn't they? Let's say 20 million of those 40 million are working (the other half draw welfare, food stamps, WIC, etc). This puts a serious dent in your already inaccurate numbers. The number of employeed Americicans drops precipitously when we account for ILLEGAL ALIENS taking jobs from Americans.

You're numbers don't hold up to even a modicum of commen sense and pointed questions. Ann Coulter, as usual, puts you fringe left twits into a tailspin. You drum up some statistics that are already skewed and try to claim victory over good ole Ann. Your numbers don't hold up.

As for enforcing laws on illegal aliens, you spout the same tired, twisted statistics. Deportation of illegal aliens are down 50%. In 2004 the United States deported well over a million illegal aliens. Now we deport around 300,000. The deportation numbers you drudge up are of criminal aliens. The hussein obama administration says they deport more CRIMINAL ALIENS than ever before. Notice the play on words here my liberal socialist sheep of a friend. 1.2 million deportations in 2004 vs 300,000 in 2011. And hussei obama is tough on immigration? Funny, I see more illegal aliens here in Watauga County than ever before. Most of them are gainfully employeed or criminals and Americans are out of work (see beginning of this post for employment numbers). Bottom line, deportations are down over 50%.

The health care law is wildly unpopular with Americans. 65% oppose the Health Care law in totality which is why liberals such as yourself resorted to archaic proceedural processes to pass it. If a majorithy of Americans wanted it, then it would've passed easily in the Senate without the need for reconciliation.

The welfare question, I won't go there. Americans are not required to work, in any sense of the word, for welfare. Never seen it - it doesn't happen. Coulter, again, is right.

Ann Coulter really torques you liberal socialists doesn't she? I love it. Go Ann!!!

USS Sheppard said...

"This shepard idiot is trying to say we're doing fine" -RY

"I have never claimed the current jobs picture to be great." -Sheppard

"Let's say 20 million of those 40 million [illegal aliens] are working" -RY

Let's be honest and say there are actually around 12 million illegal aliens in the US.

"Deportation of illegal aliens are down 50%. In 2004 the United States deported well over a million illegal aliens. Now we deport around 300,000." -RY

2004 saw less than 250,000 illegals deported. 2011 saw nearly 400,000 deportations, total.

"The health care law is wildly unpopular with Americans." -RY

Not quite.

USS Sheppard said...

"Americans are not required to work, in any sense of the word, for welfare. Never seen it - it doesn't happen. Coulter, again, is right." -RY

Two things.

1) If you've never seen it, it doesn't exist? I've never seen North Dakota. Must not be there.

2) If there is no work requirement to begin with, how can it (as Coulter puts it) be eliminated by Obama? How can Coulter be right about something that doesn't exist in the first place? The work requirement doesn't exist, but Obama is taking it away. Airtight.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone remember "Jack".

USS Rodger Young said...

Sheppard,

No, you're wrong on two counts. First is the 12 million number liberal socialists love to quote. Let me break this down into something that even you can understand, dolt. In 1996, Doris Misner, Commissioner of INS, quoted a number of 9 million illegal aliens living in the United States. In the 16 years since then, if what your saying is correct, we've only gained another 3 million illegal aliens? In 1996 it was very unusual to see any illegal alien anywhere in North Carolina. Now you will see them from Murphy to Manteo in large groups. Pass by any soccer field or Wal Mart and take a look. And we've gained only 3 million illegal aliens since 1996? Uh huh. Bear-Stearnes, a couple years back conservatively gauged the number to be in the range of 20 million. Many immigration experts feel the number to be as high as 60 million criminals (ILLEGAL ALIENS) living in the United States. Since you're still probably too stupid to inject common sense in this equation, lets look at some Demographics germain to the great third world cesspool to our south - Mexico.

Did you know, shep-herd, that many villages, towns and districts in Mexico are nearly devoid of Mexican males age 18-40? These are the same males, 18-40 who are living, right now, in the United States. Think, just for a second if you're small mind will allow it, how many millions of illegal aliens it would take to change a demographic like that. Millions upon millions. Many of the women left in those villages are unable to find mates or marry because there is no one left to meet! And you believe it would take only 9 million to cause a major population shift like that? Think man! Just pause and think about it. Every state in this once great nation is awash with Mexican males and very, very few Mexican females. And you say 9 million?

The 40 million number I threw out there is conservative. Many believe it to be much more, and it wouldn't surprise me.

So back to your B78 metric over the C90 metric squared to the cubed Pie R Squared infinity so on and so on. It's total hogwash not worth more than a glance. Means nothing. Nothing. The unemployment/employment rate in the United States is skewed heavily by the tens of millions of illegal aliens who work, thus displacing Americans who once did those jobs for a living wage.

Take Chetola and the Blowing Rock Country Club for example (yet again). Those resorts, in the not too distant past, used American citizens to keep the grounds looking nice. Now illegal aliens do it. Think of the amount of Chetolas and country clubs across the United States who do the same thing (out of greed). 9 million? Illegal aliens should be factored into the employment rate shep-herd. If some enterprising liberal socialist made the mistake of including illegal aliens in employment numbers, you would see the American unemployment rate topping 15% very easily.

And why don't you, oh great gift to mankind, do that for us shep-herd? The truth you might find there is a bit inconvienant, right? Ann Coulter smoked you!!!!

USS Rodger Young said...

shep-herd,

And the number of deportations in 2004 was well over a million. Not sure where you get your numbers, but if you recall, in 2004 the border was out of control. 1.2 million apprehensions resulting in deportation by the border guards alone. That doesn't even factor in ICE and other immigration units such as ports of entry.

If you are so off base on the simple number of deportations in 2004, then it makes me wonder about all the other fancy gizmo numbers you banter about. Sounds like fodder to confuse and offline the issue. I was going to stay out of this and let the other, even more capable conservatives hammer you into a pile of sheppard doo but I just couldn't resist.

Ann Coulter smoke you.

Deportations of illegal aliens are at an all time low right now. Don't let the criminal alien vs regular alien fool you like it has done every other liberal socialist lemming slug in America.

That was easy!!!!

USS Rodger Young said...

shep-herd said:

"If you've never seen it, it doesn't exist? I've never seen North Dakota. Must not be there"

And you've never seen the 40 million illegal aliens living in the United States have you? That must not really be here sucking up jobs that Americans once did; sucking up Welfare, using medical services; filling jails; filling hospitals; and dumbing down schools. No, since you stick you're head deep, deep into the sand it doesn't happen. LOL!! What a dolt.

I have never seen anyone, anywhere, anytime work for welfare. That notion is so silly as to be laughable. So why WOULD hussein obama pass a law if it never happened? For the same reason he passed health care you dolt!! We had no problems with the current system, which happens to be the best in the world, but he changed it anyway to give government more control in our daily lives. Putting more folks on welfare, with fewer potential restriction means more votes for your messiah. Easy concept shep-heard.

Thought you were going to run over people with some fancy statistics didn't you? Didn't happen as planned when USS Rodger Young stepped in stopping you cold in your tracks! LOL! You're backtracking makes you look even sillier than you are.

USS Rodger Young

PSS Tell us Shep-heard, how do you feel about illegal aliens taking Americans jobs at Chetola and Blowing Rock Country Club. Those corporations are exploiting poor people right? Funny how liberals trash rich people in America, but stay silent as a peep mouse when these same dreaded rich people choose criminals (illegal aliens) over Americans. Can you explain this hypocrisy or will you offline and quit like liberal socialists usually do when confronted with facts? LOL!

USS Rodger Young said...

You know, though, I do have to hand it to shep-heard, he did at least make an attempt to fight it out. Most of his ilk slink away to whatever slime hole they came from never to be heard from again until an opportunity for a pot shot presents itself. Good job shep-heard on putting yourself out there. Very honorable.

USS Sheppard said...

Ok, so we're down to just the illegal immigration number.

"The 40 million number I threw out there is conservative." -RY

Actually, that 40 million number isn't just made up. In fact, it's the number of total foreign-born individuals living in the US, both legally and illegally. There are actually 12 million or so illegal aliens in the US.

"In 1996 it was very unusual to see any illegal alien anywhere in North Carolina. Now you will see them from Murphy to Manteo in large groups. Pass by any soccer field or Wal Mart and take a look." -RY

So there 40 million illegal immigrants because you "see more" of them now? You sure do put a lot of stock in what you see/don't see. Also, what does an illegal immigrant look like? How do you pick these individuals out at the Wal-Mart?

"Not sure where you get your numbers" -RY

ICE. You know, the ones doing the deporting. You admit that your 1.2 million number includes Border Patrol arrests and intercepts, which aren't classified as deportations. There were less than 250,000 deportations in 2004. And just under 400,000 last year.

B78 over C90 squared to the cubed Pie R Squared infinity, and all.

guy faulkes said...

According to the union of the Border Patrol, neither ICE nor the Border Patrol can do their jobs because of orders from the Obama administration. Fast and Furious is only part of the scandals involving this administration and Mexico.

USS Rodger Young said...

Sheep Heard said:

"Ok, so we're down to just the illegal immigration number."

I take this to mean you capitualte on all the rest. I won as I will win with illegal aliens. Good way to capitulate sir. Well played.

Then he goes on to spout more liberal drivel:

"There are actually 12 million or so illegal aliens in the US."

And where did you find this number? The Southern Poverty Law Center perhaps? LOL!!!

Again, I ask you, do you really think the 12 million number is correct given the INS said the number was 9 million in 1996? And yes, I do put a lot of stock in what I see around me. Much more than doctored statistics from liberal "research" (oxymoron). The fact that illegal aliens take jobs from US citizens with NO FEAR of DEPORTATION is a key indicator. 40 million criminals (illegal aliens) living in the United States is a conservative estimate. Tell you what, look at the NC top 10 most wanted and see how many illegal aliens you see listed on that website. In 1990 you would see 0.

So Border guard apprehensions aren't counted as deportations? Strange, Section 237 of the Immigration and Nationality Act says otherwise. All apprehensions fall under Section 237 and there is no difference. A criminal is a criminal.

Deportations under hussein obama are at an all time low right now. Over a million 3 years ago and now down to 250,000. Hussein Obama gives amnesty to criminals (illegal aliens) and you support him.

And you failed to answer one of many of my questions. What of the jobs that illegal aliens take from U.S. citizens. You're ok with that..

Is the rear end a little raw from the hammering you're taking? LOL!!

USS Rodger Young

USS Rodger Young said...

Balls in your court shep heard.

USS Sheppard said...

RY, it would be helpful if you would start citing where your estimates are coming from, with links and verifiable sources. Just because you think or say there are 40 to 60 million illegal immigrants in the US doesn't make it true. I could say that there are 72 illegal aliens, but I'd still be wrong.

Again, there are around 12 million illegal immigrants living in the US. That number is not debatable beyond +/- 1%.

And again, deportations have gone up, from less than 250,000 in 2004 to nearly 400,000 in 2011. Again, these are verified, accurate numbers and not debatable just because you say so.

Why did you leave my question unanswered?..... what does an illegal immigrant look like? How do you pick these individuals out at the Wal-Mart?

"In 1996 it was very unusual to see any illegal alien anywhere in North Carolina. Now you will see them from Murphy to Manteo in large groups. Pass by any soccer field or Wal Mart and take a look." -RY

Anonymous said...

USS Shepard, your links are opinion pieces from a leftist organization.

Anonymous said...

Sheep says the "number is not debatable" but, of course it is! His saying so does not make it accurate.

It could be 12 million, it could be 30 million. There is NO reliable number to be found. Different organizations have estimated different numbers.

USS Rodger Young said...

USS Shep-heard,

You're data comes from the Pew Hispanic Research Center, a highly partisian bunch of open border supporters. There are many studies out there with estimates across the board. I already quoted a source which doubles your estimate. What I see going on around me if far more important or accurate than the Pew Hispanic Center. 9 million in 1996 and now 12 million in 2012. Only a 3 million difference. Yet we see 10 times the number of illegal aliens among us! They don't just work at chicken plants like they did in 1996. They work everywhere (and take American's jobs and lower the living wage as well). And you're still stuck on the 12 million number. I always knew liberal socialists didn't have much sense, but this is beyond reason.

The reason PEW numbers are low is because "The “residual method” is widely used to estimate the undocumented population. With this method, the known number of legal immigrants is subtracted from the reported census number of self-proclaimed foreign born people in the U.S. census to obtain the unauthorized immigrant (residual) population.[2] This methodology is used by the US Department of Homeland Security,[3] the Pew Hispanic Center, the US Census Bureau and others. Since undocumented immigrants have many reasons for not answering the census correctly and no penalties for answering the census incorrectly, a direct subtraction has a well-known source of undercount error and has to be corrected. All known users of this methodology correct the foreign born population (about 35–50 million) by 10–40% (3–12 million) to account for this undercount effect. Critics claim this correction is in error no matter which size correction is used.

Using the residual methodology with a minimal 10% foreign born undercount correction (reason for correction size unstated) for the 2000 census and a 700,000 net undocumented immigrant increase/year assumption and data from the March 2004 Current Population Survey, Pew estimated 10.3 million unauthorized immigrants in 2004. Assuming the same rate of growth Pew projected this population reached at least 11 million as of March 2005"

With that being said, a truer estimation of the number of illegal aliens in the United States is made by me. Do you really think all the transient illegal aliens working at Blowing Rock Country Club and Chetola answered the US census? No way. I stand by the number of 40 million as a low end estimate.

How come you don't include illegal aliens into your employment/unemployment numbers? Hard to claim 8% unemployment when the number is more like 15% isn't it.

Again, Ann Coulter smoked you.!

USS Rodger Young said...

Again, dolt, deportations have gone down from 1.3 million in 2005 to around 250,000 in 2011. The source for that statistic is the Department of Homeland Security. Why it's so hard to get this through your cranial deposit is unknown. The United States is deporting the least amount of criminals (illegal aliens) than ever before. The number is low enough that a UNION comprised of Border guards is calling bs. Yes, you heard that right, a union is going against hussein obama.

You rather obviously failed to comment on the change in demographics in Mexico. Whole villages are devoid of men now. But, the great shep-heard only THINKs it isn't so apart from empirical evidence that says otherwise. Stick to the 9 million number. Stick you head in the sand.

And you failed to comment on the top ten most wanted in NC. No aliens on that list in 1990 and many on that list now. Must just be an anomaly.

How do you tell what an illegal alien looks like? Mmmmmm, another stupid question by the left. Were you born stupid or did you just get that way somehow? Mexicans speaking spanish in the United States are illegal aliens. Prove me wrong. Tell you what, I'll ask a couple at Wal Mart and see what they tell me. To even ask that question is beyond ridiculous. Then again, you're a liberal so it makes complete sense.

USS Rodger Young

PS I've went through all 4 of Coulter's points and proven you wrong on all of them. Stings don't it!

USS Sheppard said...

"The “residual method” is widely used to estimate the undocumented population." -RY

That's correct. The census bureau is very good at counting US residents. We also know the number of domestic deaths, births, and legal immigration. If those numbers do not match up with the census' increase in total population, then we have the illegal count. It is the accepted methodology. Are you suggesting the census bureau is somehow overlooking upwards of 50 million people? (the population of South Korea).

"I already quoted a source which doubles your estimate." -RY

Not quite. You stated that Bear Stearns (a now defunct investment bank) estimated the illegal population at 20 million. That is not a verifiable citation. If you linked to a study or methodology report, then it would be.

"a truer estimation of the number of illegal aliens in the United States is made by me." -RY

What is your methodology? Please share with us.

"Mexicans speaking spanish in the United States are illegal aliens. Prove me wrong." -RY

How do you know they are Mexican in heritage? I speak Spanish, am I an illegal alien? What about French, Hindi, German, or the other 300 or so languages spoken by US residents? Are they illegal aliens simply because you hear them speaking another language?

USS Rodger Young said...

The census is indeed good at counting US residents, but not illegal aliens. I am saying the Census department is overlooking that many people. If the Department of Homeland Security can overlook them, why would it be a stretch for the census department to overlook them? Coprporations like Chetola and the Blowing Rock Country Club overlook them. You overlook them. Do you really think a trailer full of 30 illegal aliens is going to answer a census? Surely you're not that dumb.

Because you say the Bear Stearns report is unverifiable doesn't make it so. Are you God? I say it's so, so it's so. Bear Stearns originally completed the report to learn more about economic damages resulting from remitances to Mexico. In doing their research on remitances, they said the number could be no lower than 20 million. If we had just a few million in the United States, then why would remitances even be mentioned. It takes millions upon millions to cause the level of remitances necessary to affect our economy. Remitances do affect our economy or else they wouldn't be studied so much by economists or corporations like Bear Stearns. LOL!!

What say you about remitances and the 12 million number now? LOL! You're weak arguements look assanine now.

Is a zebra a zebra because you saw one shep-heard? Funny, I don't remember seeing to many spanish speaking individuals with "Viva Mexico" flags hanging from their rear view mirror in the Wal Mart Parking lot. Could just be me though.

A couple years back, I was in the Health Department for a vacinnation (which I had to pay for). I was the only US citizen there. The lobby was filled with illegal aliens (many of them pregnant with anchor babies). I asked the doctor if all those illegal aliens recieved free medical care, and he told me yes. The doctor went on to tell me that most of the ILLEGAL ALIENS in the waiting room had detailed to him the horrors of crossing the border illegally.

But, shep-heard, we all know you're a God or something so please tell us how you believe all the illegal aliens AREN'T illegal aliens? Enlighten us.

I speak a few foreign langues myself, but that doesn't confuse the ease with which to tell whether or not I'm an AMERICAN. LOL!!!

USS Rodger Young said...

Shep heard,

You still haven't addressed the change in demographics in Mexico. You know, entire villages and towns devoid of Mexican males over the past 10 years. And how exactly does such a mass migration to another country mesh with your 12 million number given the INs put the number at 9 million in 1996 before this mass migration took place?

This ought to be interesting!!!

USS Sheppard said...

"Because you say the Bear Stearns report is unverifiable doesn't make it so." -RY

I'm not just "saying so". It's unverifiable because you haven't proven that it exists. Simply link to the report, I would like to read it.

So if you look foreign, publicly speak another language, or display any good feelings towards a foreign country, you must be an illegal alien. Gotcha. (You might want to mention that to the 100,000 legal residents of San Francisco's Chinatown).

You have yet to share your methodology with us (unless it's sitting in your Wal-Mart parking lot, counting people who "look Mexican").

USS Rodger Young said...

For you to be unable to locate criminls (illegal aliens) as they take your jobs, fill your jails, pat your girlfriends behind, dumb down your schools, use your welfare, and fill your hospitals bespeaks a base element common to the fringe left - ignore the problem and it will go away. If you're unable to recognize a foreigner in your own country then perhaps it's because you're a foreigner too. Self deport please. LOL!

USS Rodger Young

USS Rodger Young said...

For the fifth time you've dodged my question regarding mass migration from Mexico into the United States to the point of Mexican villages and towns being totally devoid of males age 18-40. Is this a bit inconvienant for you as you stick your head in the sand claiming you don' t know what an illegal alien looks like? LOL!!

Still waiting on answers.

USS Rodger Young said...

I think we have a fringe left socialist about ready to quit.

USS Sheppard said...

Still waiting on that report. And your measurement methodology.

USS Rodger Young said...

shep-heard,

I've went far and beyond and answered your silly questions. But you won't touch mine. Why is that? The mass migration scenario blows your 12 million number right out of the water and coincides with the correct number of 40 million right?

Again, answer my question.


USS Rodger Young

USS Sheppard said...

Can't find that report, eh? Check Wal-Mart.

USS Sheppard said...

I've only seen some sporadic reports of working-age men leaving their communities. In each case, they've left their fairly small villages and entered the US for seasonal work, returning with their wages (or mailing them home). Not exactly a "mass migration".

I'd ask you to cite your claims of large stretches of Mexico left utterly devoid of men, but I see how my previous request for citation turned out. Nada.

USS Rodger Young said...

I've seen widespread reports of men, ages 18-40 leaving villages and towns for the United States. And they no longer return seasonally my ill advised liberal socialist of a friend. They stay here in the good ole USA and take jobs, fill jails, use the same welfare you use, and dumb down once great schools. But there's only 12 million of them so what damage can they really do. I mean, half the FBIs most wanted and 7 out of 20 of NC SBIs most wanted are illegal aliens, but that's never an idicator, right? You're sliding sheap-herd. LOL!!

Furthermore, of courese you see only "sporadic" reports. What else do you expect from the liberal news media. You only saw "sporadic" reports of the 71 year old who shot would be mass murderers in a Florida casino. Does that mean it didn't happen or what you hear from the lamestream media is true. Bury your head in the CNN sand and keep thinking it will be all right.

Here's a good "sporadic" report from a women in Mexico reporting that 80% of the males are gone from her village. Just sporadic though.

repository.unm.edu/bitstream/handle/1928/9761/Campesinos..."

"Although the people of the state of Morelos in Central Mexico, sing its praises. . . many of those same Mexicans are leaving their homes in droves. . . They’re the campesinos who used to work the fields in states like Morelos. . . growing corn, beans, rice and sugar cane.
For generations their numbers have been growing, so the fields they once cultivated are now shared among many brothers and cousins. As their numbers grow, the land does not. It’s impossible to earn a living.
So they head north . . . from rural towns like Tilzapotla, where Cynthia Isabel Villegas, who has seen 80 percent of her male schoolmates cross to the United States. . . now lives in a pueblo devoid of young men.

Cynthia Isabel Villegas 4:10 y 6:35 No hay hombres aqui. . .
/// Los personas van, por ejemplo, es mas facil a trabajar en un restaurante, en jardines, y quitan nieve, en fabricas. . . de papel. Es mas facil encuentra trabajo a hoy ya. . . un mejor vida, y un vero dinero."

Cont'd

USS Rodger Young said...

Oh, and here's another sporadic one:

"Mexican wives want U.S. to return husbands
Google News
The women of Tecalpulco, Mexico, want the U.S. government to enforce
its immigration laws because they want to force their husbands to come
back home from working illegally in the United States.
They have created an English-language Web page where they identify
themselves as the "wetback wives" and broadcast their pleas, both to
their men and to the U.S. government.
"To the United States government -- close the border, send our men
home to us, even if you must deport them (only treat them in a humane
manner -- please do not hurt them)," it reads.
In poignant public messages to their husbands, the women talk
about their children who feel abandoned, and worry that the men have
forsaken their families for other women and for the American
lifestyle.
"You said you were only going to Arizona to get money for our
house, but now you have been away and did not come back when your
sister got married," one woman writes to a man named Pedro. "Oh how I
worry that you have another woman! Don't you love me? You told me you
love me."
It's a stark reminder of an often forgotten voice in the U.S.
immigration debate -- the wives, children, parents and villages left
behind as millions of workers come to the U.S., many of them
illegally. The plea also underscores the dual effects of migration on
Mexico: Its economy needs American jobs as an outlet for workers, but
determined, able-bodied workers get siphoned out of Mexico.
More than 10 million Mexican-born people, or nearly one out of
every 10, was living in the United States in 2005. And as a percentage
of the work force it's even higher: One in seven, or 14 percent, were
here, according to the Migration Policy Institute. The institute said
77 percent of Mexican workers in the U.S. were younger than 45, and 70
percent were men.
Villages devoid of men between 20 and 50 are common in many parts
of the country. The stories of single mothers struggling to raise
their children are just as frequent.
The women of Tecalpulco have come up with one way to cope. They
run an artists' cooperative to sell traditional-style jewelry,
including through the Internet. The page where they make their
personal pleas, www.artcamp.com.mx/venga/, is a part of their Web
site.
One of the women writes to "Ruben" telling him their children
haven't seen him in three years and ask where he is.
"I know we agreed you should try your fortune in the United
States, but I didn't know that it would be so lonely and that you
would be gone for such a long time, please return to us," she writes.
Mexican officials are aware of the social and economic
consequences to their towns and villages. But businesses and
government officials on both sides of the border also acknowledge a
sort of grand bargain -- the U.S. gets cheap labor, while Mexico has
an outlet for its unemployed, who in turn send cash back home."

USS Rodger Young said...

And here is yet another "sporadic" report:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-13233587.html

USS Rodger Young said...

Another "sporadic" report:

http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2006/04/mexican_wives_s.html

USS Rodger Young said...

Here's a "sporadic" report in the LA Times talking about Mexican women suffering mentally due to their mates leaving:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2009/07/mexican-women-left-behind-by-their-husbands-who-migrate-to-the-united-states-in-search-of-work-were-one-of-the-focuses-of-the.html

USS Rodger Young said...

Here's a great "sporadic" report in the Christian Science Monitor entitled "As Men Go North, Wives Get Forgotten".

What's interesting about this article is the amount of males that came to shep-herds home state of North Carolina. These must be the ones I see at Wal Mart that sheap-herd says don't exist.

What's even more interesting is the family dynamic of Mexican males - or lack of it. Mexican males, the article notes, often leave for good and don't contact their wives or children ever again. Who woulda thought?

And we want these "hard workers" here Sheap-herd?

Balls in your court

Stings don't it

USS Rodger Young said...

Another "sporadic" report on women left behind, permanently, by those hard working, honest, Mexican Males.

http://live.wsj.com/video/who-needs-men-the-rise-of-rural-mexican-women/19C2A17D-CF74-4F71-AA3D-4F9643ACB00A.html#!19C2A17D-CF74-4F71-AA3D-4F9643ACB00A

The 12 million number just ain't cutting it my liberal slug of a friend!!! LOL!!

That was easy

USS Sheppard said...

Yes, sporadic. Thank you for finally linking to some of the articles in which you base your beliefs, but your five links span 19 years.

They also all reference rural areas of Mexico. So we're not talking millions of missing men (as you claim), it's more like thousands. Doesn't really account for those 50 million people you claim hid from the census bureau.

One of your stories also cites the town of Tilzapolta. The population was 4,865 in 2000. It was 4,789 in 2010. A 1.5% decrease. Not exactly a "mass migration". Unless they're shipping women and old men in from all over to replace the millions of young men who have left the town.

You're wrong. My condolences to your ego.

USS Rodger Young said...

Those were the first 5 I found in about 1 minute. Others get the point. You?-no way. When you have tens of thousands of villages across Mexico, towns, and cities, the amount of criminals (illegal aliens) coming into our once great nation is expansive. 40 million is a quaint estimate. As quaint as any of your arguements.

Again, your employment/unemployment numbers are heavily skewed. With 40 million illegal aliens in the mix (a very conservative estimate), the unemployment number easily jumps to 15%.

Therefore, Ann Coulter was right, as she was on the other 3 points. Silencing your puff piece was very easy. Typical when hammering a liberal socialist sheep.

USS Sheppard said...

For illustrative purposes, let's just look at the Mexican State of Morelos, where the town of Tilzapolta is located.

We know Tilzapolta lost 1.5% of its population from 2000 to 2010. But Morelos' population grew by nearly 50% from 1990 to 2010.

What about the border states (from 1990 to 2010)? Sonora: up 45%. Chihuahua: up 50%. Coahuila: up 30%. Nuevo Leon: up 50%. Tamaulipas: up 45%. Baja California Norte: up 90%.

Significant population increases while the country lost 60 million? (Mexico's population is only 110 million to begin with). They're certainly not having babies......with all their men gone and all.

Game. Set. Match.

USS Rodger Young said...

uss sheap-heard,

Not even remotely hard to answer this one. Population shifts are different than population growth. Mexicans are migrating to those border states in droves. A population shift isn't population growth. As for having babies, they seem to be pretty good at having babies even if they have no intention of supporting them. Read the many articles I sent you. This comes from the mouths of Mexican women left raising those kids. Next.

USS Rodger Young said...

uss sheap-heard says information on Mexican males leaving town and villages is sporadic. Lets look at some more "sporadic" activity by the left to put things in perspective.

1. Reports are sporadic when it comes to identifying the immigration status of those caught doing crimes in the U.S. Reports aren't sporadic when it's a suspected Tea Party Member

2. Reports are sporadic concerning illegal immigration into the United States. Reports aren't sporadic when the Democrats give anmensty for votes.

3. Reports are sporadic concerning Fast and Furious guns used to kill Americans. Reports on guns recovered at Mexican crime scenes aren't.

4. Reports are sporadic on guns used to thwart crimes in the United States. Reports aren't sporadic when guns are used to commit crimes in the U.S.

5. Reports during the past 3 1/2 years concerning deaths of US Servicemen abroad are extremely sporadic. They weren't during Bush's term. How many soldiers HAVE died during the past 3 1/2 years by the way?

6. Attention given to Scott Walker's victory in Wisconsin are sporadic. A liberal victory is not.

You get my point, sheap-herd? LOL! Whenever something is "sporadic", you can bet it's a cover up by the left. Nice try, but you're being too "sporadic". LOL!

USS Sheppard said...

"Mexicans are migrating to those border states in droves. A population shift is not population growth." -RY

Ooooohhh, it's a population shift. So if 60 million people "shifted" we should see some pretty significant population decreases in the inland states. But from 1990-2010:

Aguascalientes: up 70%
Baja California Sur: up 115%
Chiapas: up 40%
Colima: up 50%
Distrito Federal: up 10%
Durango: up 25%
Guanajuato: up 40%
Guerrero: up 30%
Hidalgo: up 40%
Jalisco: up 40%
Michoacan: up 20%
Nayarit: up 40%
Oaxaca: up 25%
Puebla: up 40%
Queretaro: up 80%
Quintana Roo: up 160%
San Luis Potosi: up 30%
Sinaloa: up 25%
Tabasco: up 50%
Tlaxcala: up 65%
Veracruz: up 20%
Yucatan: up 35%
Zacatecas: up 20%

guy faulkes said...

What were the numbers Shep? Percentages do nothing to help your argument. How many are still there and how many left out of the total?

You made a rather sporadic argument.

USS Rodger Young said...

Well said Guy. The border states of Mexico have indeed seen increases in population. Many jobs exist in Tijuana, Mexicali, Cuidad Juarez, and many other border towns due to the smuggling business. With few jobs in Mexico, many move to these border locations to take part in support functions to drug and alien smuggling.

The vast departure of Mexican males from towns and villages is the story here though despite Matt sheap-herds best attempts to occlude the obvious. When you have Mexican women screaming for immigration control in the United States because their deadbeat husbands migrated to the United States to join 40 million other males, you can bet the problem is vast.

Funny how we had 9 million illegal aliens in 1996 and you never saw one in Watauga County, and now in 2012, with 12 million illegal aliens, you see them everywhere (hospitals, jails, worksites, etc). Just a 3 million increase? Common sense forbids it.

I won't dogpile onto Faulk's obvservation about the stats, but it's pretty easy to see yet another overreach by a liberal. LOL!!!

USS Rodger Young

USS Rodger Young said...

Any other liberals need a spanking like sheap heard? LOL!!

Sarkazein said...

How many liberals have said terrorists are not coming in across our borders?
The answer is YES they are. The government now admits it. Are liberals ever right?

USS Sheppard said...

"The border states of Mexico have indeed seen increases in population...The vast departure of Mexican males from towns and villages is the story here though despite Matt sheap-herds best attempts to occlude the obvious." -RY

I've asked you, multiple times, to prove that 60 million people have disappeared from Mexico. You have done nothing but point to "I've seen more Mexicans at Wal-Mart" as your proof. In contrast, I have shown that the numbers do nothing to support the claim that 60 million people have left Mexico.

You attempted to claim that males leaving the country accounted for the discrepancy between my (well, everybody's) 12 million number and your 60 million number. But the "proof" you provided were individual stories from rural towns, which can't account for 50 million people. Men are leaving their families behind, but not half the country.

I debunked your claim by showing significant population increases in border states, areas that would be more prone to male emigration. You countered that those states have seen population increases due to an intra-country population shift. I then debunked that claim by showing significant population increases in all Mexican states. Again, your 60 million number has not been substantiated.

The population increases of the inland states have been consistent with that of the border states. This indicates that there has been no drastic population shift within Mexico.

You also claim another false number. 9 million illegal immigrants in 1996? More like 5 million.

You have shown no proof of your claimed 60 million number. Simply because you believe to know what an illegal immigrant "looks like" and you've "seen more of them at Wal-Mart" only shows that the Hispanic population in your area has increased, nothing else.

Your "argument" has been sorely beaten. You're just embarrassing yourself now.

Sarkazein said...

USS Shepherd- Your argument is similar to the argument you used under a previous more Canadian sounding screen name.
Illegals do not muster up after crossing the border for a head count. One of the problems with illegals is-- no one knows for sure how many are here. Illegals are not only from Mexico. Live in Arizona, California, or Texas for a while. The number is well into the tens of millions.
No statistics book can give you the answer... the illegals don't cooperate with the beaner counters.

USS Sheppard said...

"Illegals do not muster up after crossing the border for a head count. One of the problems with illegals is-- no one knows for sure how many are here." -Sark

You're right, we don't know the exact number. But we can make a pretty good estimate using indirect data. I've shown the evidence supporting the 12 million number. No evidence has been shown that supports a 60 million number....unless there are 50 million illegals using RY's Wal-Mart.

Anonymous said...

OK then, let's deport 12 million and then maybe we can get a handle on how many are left.

Anonymous said...

The USA has a population of about 311 million. To have 60 million criminal aliens here we would be looking at a # of about 1 in 5. I think that is a bit of a stretch.

guy faulkes said...

I think that is a bit of a stretch.

I do not. No one can say exactly ow many are here, only that they are far to many. If the figure is 2, then it is 2 to many. Laws should be enforced or eliminated.