This blog originally founded by Blogger who holds a theological degree and a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Taught Psychology for 32 years and is now Professor Emeritus. Is a board-certified psychologist and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in his profession. Ministered as a chaplain, and pastored Baptist and Episcopal churches. Publications cover the integration of psychology and theology. Served in the Army, the Merchant Marines and the Peace Corps.

Thursday, September 6, 2012

Dems - Are they booing God? Jerusalem? Or just each other?

It seems like half the DNC gang was opposed to including any reference to God or Jerusalem in their parties platform. Any reference to either was left out of the platform as originally passed - but, according to insiders - Obama himself, fearing political repercussions,  intervened and the convention put an "amendment" to the platform on the floor for vote of the delegates. After 3 "votes", which any objective observer would have to say were too close to call, acting chair LA mayor Antonia Villaraigosa had someone whisper in his ear and then declared that 2/3 of the convention had voted FOR the amended version. When he announced the results - the convention responded with boos!
 
By the thinnest of margins....and with a little help from the chair, Dems have voted that there IS a God! Well, not all Dems, but at least it's the party's official platform now.

They were a lot more certain about their stand on mandating the Catholic church to provide birth control to any employees it may have - regardless of the churches long standing position on the matter. And, they seem to be in agreement that aborting innocent babies is ok - and that traditional marriage is somehow outdated - but, at least they have acknowledged the existence of God - (as decided by the chair if not the convention itself).


Now the question is will their candidates support the party platform?

116 comments:

NewGuy said...

And a nod to Sark who had already posted on this topic on the vent thread...

Sarkazein said...

The ayes have it video...NOT

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/05/Democrats-change-platform-God-Israel

September 6, 2012 7:49 AM



Sorry Sark...I posted this before I read all the comments on the other threads...

ITCM said...

This shows that we need a 3rd party - a party that's unafraid to run government without a god.

Why is it important for the U.S. to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel? I know why the Republicans want that, but why the Democrats?

NewGuy said...

ITCM you know the answer to that! Florida is too important and the Dems, just like the Republicans, want the Jewish vote there!

And, while I don't disagree with you entirely that a third party might, in the long term, be good for the country....in the short term they can't win a national election AND they will kill the chances of whichever party they are closest to philosophically.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM said- "...a party that's unafraid to run government without a god."

Vote the Communist Party.

Ignore the US Constitution that starts uses the word Blessing.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Opoib said...

ITCM, I would love to see a strong 3rd party with out a church influence.

But it can never happen. There are too many people on both sides who need to be guided by their choice of man in the sky, rather then think for themselves.

ITCM said...

Sark: Sure, the term "blessing" can have a religious tone, but the definition I think meant in the Constitution is: contributing to happiness, well-being, or prosperity.

About these conventions, I get frustrated at all of the begging and bending just to get votes on both sides. It's all just a bunch of great (and sometimes bad) acting.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM- When you read it in the US Constitution, you noticed Blessing is capitalized.

The Declaration of Independence used the word unalienable.

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political
bands which have connected them with another and
to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's Godentitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM- Did you join in on the booing of our Founding?

Sarkazein said...

OPOIB said-"ITCM, I would love to see a strong 3rd party with out a church influence."

Which "church" is influencing what Party? Is it the phantom 'Church of the United States'? Or are you meaning you want a secular or Atheist Party. Because there is already, as you know, an Atheist Party and an Atheist PAC. There are a few Communist and Socialist and Worker's Parties you can pick from.

guy faulkes said...

Atheism is a choice concerning religion. Therefore it is no different than being Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Taoist, etc. in being a religious belief. Of them all, it is probably tied with Muslim in wanting to be THE political power in a given country.

This was a large mistake made by the anti religion wing of the Democrat party. They made more than just Christians angry.

ITCM said...

Sark and Guy, I get the overwhelming feeling that you don't like atheists very much. Being atheist does not mean we want a communist government, just one that doesn't feel the need to make its decisions based on the belief in a supernatural being. If leaders said that Zeus, Quetzalcoatl or Horus were helping them make their decisions, you would think that was crazy wouldn't you? Why? Because you don't believe in those gods any longer. Atheists just don't believe in these ancient gods + one more - Yayweh.

Non-belief in a god does not make a person immoral. Actually, I feel that it makes a person have a more intense and better understanding of the beauty of life and the desire for all people to be free and equal.

Sarkazein said...

As said many times-- more faith is required to be an Atheist than to believe in G_d.

The entire point you are missing ITCM, is that it is the Atheists and the secular Left trying force their/your beliefs on society through the Courts.
I'm not an Evangelist, so I could care less about your faith. I care about the law suits to force others to follow your traditions of freedom from religion. All the way up to the pointy-head revolution, people prayed in public places... including the Supreme Court.

ITCM said...

Sark, you don't care about faith, but apparently you care about keeping prayer in the government traditions. Isn't prayer supposed to be a personal experience? Matthew 6:5-6 - “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you".

I see faith as giving up on trying to know the answers. I like to find out and understand why and how. Faith is not going to cure cancer, Alzheimer's or regrow a soldier's lost limb. Faith is not going to heal a mind suffering from PTSD. Faith is not going to make Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Israel peaceful nations. Faith is not interested in exploring our universe or saving our planet from human being's own devices.

I want to point out that the Republican campaign has always tried to make President Obama look like a man who doesn't have enough or the correct religious faith. After watching his speech last night, it's evident that he has an abundance of faith in our country and its people & I feel that is more important than a belief that God is going to magically heal our various problems.

Opoib said...

Sarcrazien, please prove this statement by you.

"As said many times-- more faith is required to be an Atheist than to believe in G_d. "

This is 100% untrue it is just as easy for me to not belive in your or any god as it is to not believe in Santa the Eater Bunny or any other thing that cannot be proven to exist.

It would be much harder for me personally to believe in a god or any other supernatural thing including ghosts spirits or angels or demons.

To believe in any of those would require me to actively put faith before fact.

Opoib said...

Guy and Sark, read this it might be a more appropriate explanation of my view of an atheist.

http://i.imgur.com/iuavE.jpg

Blogger said...

OPOIB “To believe in any of those would require me to actively put faith before fact.” Nope,to know God, requires you to actively invite the Holy Spirit into yourself. Then faith comes with Him as part of the package. Then you learn to switch channels from the discursive part of your psychological system which until now, you have totally trusted in. Gradually you begin to become aware that you now have a new channel working on a different frequency. (As far as I know the new channel does not pick up Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, but over time, it can pick up angels and demons. That is if you are one of the fortunate ones.)


Opoib said...

Blogger, we will have to disagree. I do not believe in to tuning in to different frequencies anymore then I believe I can get free Skinamax by trying a different frequency to tune my tv to.

I had in my youth tried to tune in to different frequencies via chemical experimentation :)

That was an attempt at humor. But I believe in science not faith.

Opoib said...

Blogger, things like this link show me all the time that I am missing nothing but not believing in supernatural beings.

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/zi9wn/clever_bumper_sticker_followed_by_this_intolerant/

Opoib said...

For the anti gay marriage crowd I think hit the nail on the head.

http://i.imgur.com/PdCJC.png

Blogger said...

OPOIB "I had in my youth tried to tune in to different frequencies via chemical experimentation :)" Interesting. Did you know that many of the leaders of mega churches today discovered other channels with mind altering chemicals? However, they kept going until they found the real thing they were looking for. Hang in there Opoib, it can still happen.

By the way, your atheist with an inner morality. How do you know that his compassion does not come from having been "created in the image of God?"

Opoib said...

Blogger, I believe I was created by the sexual copulation of my mother and father that's it simple biology.

Nothing micraculous to it even if i do think i am special :)

The religious like to say prove you were not made from god, or prove god doesn't exist. That's not the way science works.

I can prove through science how something works or that something is real not the other way around.

I can no more prove god is false as i can the Easter bunny or the loch ness monster or Zeus.

I do have faith in science that we will find life not of this world now that we are exploring other planets. Or maybe the Higgs boson

http://blog.oup.com/2012/09/why-is-the-higgs-boson-called-the-god-particle/

So guess you could say I hope we find extra terrestrial life just not so sure about the supernatural part.

Opoib said...

Blogger you may also give me too much credit you called me

"your atheist with an inner morality"

I like to think when given the choice I do the right thing to the other humans on this rock we call home.

But there are also more then a couple of people I would be happy to not be sharing oxygen with.

I would happily refuse to help them for any reason or on any need even if it is just to enjoy watching them suffer if I had the chance.

Sarkazein said...

Opoib said...
Sarcrazien, please prove this statement by you.

"As said many times-- more faith is required to be an Atheist than to believe in G_d. "


PROOF it has been said many times.

3,350,00 hits

Sarkazein said...

Opoib said...
Sarcrazien, please prove this statement by you.

"As said many times-- more faith is required to be an Atheist than to believe in G_d. "


PROOF it has been said many times.

3,350,00 hits

guy faulkes said...

Game - Point - Match to Sark.

It really amuses me that some people cannot understand that a belief about religion is a religious belief. The existence of God is a matter of faith - either way.

Opoib said...

I completely disagree. For me the choice to not belive in a "god" is simple. I believe in what can be proven not what can not.

It takes me almost no effort unless you count being saddened when I see "religious" people who preach "love" do bigoted things or threaten that "MY god" loves you but if you do not love him he will burn you in agony forever.

Sarkcrazien, you and Guy can believe what ever you like in your mutual admiration society.

But for me it take me as much effort to not believe in any "god" then it does to tie my shoes.

Both require some effort in my day. But that amount by me is minuscule compared to the amount of effort a religious person does in to proving what can not be proven is real.

Sarkazein said...

Opoib said- "But for me it take me as much effort to not believe in any "god" then it does to tie my shoes.

Both require some effort in my day. But that amount by me is minuscule compared to the amount of effort a religious person does in to proving what can not be proven is real."

The lazy Left.

guy faulkes said...

And your proof that there is no God is?

Opoib said...

Guy even you are not that dense. I made it clear many times that science can not prove something is false only if it is real.

I hate to admit I gave you more credit for more intellect then to go with the old prove it "doesn't" exist line.

I will use it in return prove the point, You prove The flying spaghetti monster does not exist.

guy faulkes said...

Opoib/LPOV, so you are saying that proof is possible for a matter of faith on my part, but not on yours. How convenient for you.

This is the reverse of the argument you use on man made global warming, which does not exist and was proven not to by leaked documents from its proponents.

I can prove the existence of God easily. Look at your grandchildren while they are sleeping. They are no cosmic biological accident. If you beleive differently, you are not only heartless, you are a fool.

I have never heard of the flying spaghetti monster. Is this one of your personal demons?

Opoib said...

Guy Faulkes nice hallmark card line "Look at your grandchildren while they are sleeping. They are no cosmic biological accident. "

but absolutely false your grandchildren are the result of their parents having sex nothing else.

And only their parents can say if they were made on purpose or accidentily.

Sarkazein said...

OPOIB Said- "but absolutely false your grandchildren are the result of their parents having sex nothing else."

Dogmatic much?

Sarkazein said...

A question asked often of atheists-- How was life created in a vacuum?

guy faulkes said...

And who exactly had the first sex, Opoib/Lpov? Where did they come from, the cosmic accident? Where is the proof of the accident? Could it be you take it on faith?

I am still waiting to hear about the spaghetti monster. Did your child refuse to eat his supper, throw his spaghetti at you, and traumatize you? I cannot prove anything about him until you give me some information to go on.

I am sorry for your grandchildren (assuming you have some) in that you see nothing miraculous in their existence.

Opoib said...

Sarkcrazien, and Guy, I do not think this blog is the place to discuss quantum physics, the big bang, and evolution, with you two . Nor do I expect you two understand those topics as they are factually and scientifically proven.

Guy all the higher mammals on the planet show affection to their off spring. That affection it is not a god made miracle it is part of evolution in developing bonds that help keep them alive.

Here might be some reading topics if you would like to know how the universe came to be. Besides a man in the sky deciding to build it.

http://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com/topics_life_theories.html

Sarkazein said...

Opoib said- "Sarkcrazien, and Guy, I do not think this blog is the place to discuss quantum physics, the big bang, and evolution, with you two . "


You missed the word immediately following The Big Bang________. More liberal deception.

Opoib said...

Sarcrazien you continue to make a liar out of your self. have you no shame?

"More liberal deception." I have made it clear here in the dozens if not hundreds of times I am a libertarian.

You can call me anything you want but unless it is libertarian your lying.

Sarkazein said...

The Theory of Evolution. Even more deception from a liberal in denial.

Anonymous said...

Prove the existence of god.

Sarkazein said...

Anonymous- I don't need to prove it.

Opoib said...

Sarcrazien, dogmatic much? There is a god since I say so "I don't need to prove it"

Sarkazein said...

Opube- I allow for your Atheism. It is you who are absolutely certain religious people are wrong and are believing in sky things. I can believe you believe you are godless and I have no problem with it.

Anonymous said...

Then, climate change does not need to be proven. It just is.

Sarkazein said...

A'mous- The climate changes. This is why it is based on a ten year period. This is why the Great Lakes were formed by retreating glaciers. This is why the desert at Big Bend was a sea bed at one time. The climate changes... you are correct.

guy faulkes said...

"Then, climate change does not need to be proven. It just is."

Exactly!! There has always been climate change. It is just not man made.

Opoib said...

Sarcrazien. I have made it clear I am not going to get drawn in to you and Guy's religious debate. I am not a believer in any god period. It is not a religion for me, not a choice, just a fact of life .

I do not care one bit what deity you care to worship, just do not try and impose it on me.

If you want to worship a all knowing all loving deity fine. But if it is all loving then why does it say if you don't worship me you will burn in agony for ever.

I think that is so nice that you believe 68 plus % of the worlds population is going to burn in a lake of fire for eternity.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

ITCM said...

Double Facepalm!! Wow...just wow.

If you have lived in Boone all your life and haven't noticed the climate change just in this area, then there's something seriously wrong. You've seen the glaciers melting and the arctic tundra receding and think that man has nothing to do with it? The billions of tons of pollution we pour into the atmosphere has absolutely nothing to do with it?

Evolution and The Big Bang offer researchable and proven scientific claims. Isn't that much more exciting than believing in Adam & Eve just because it was supposedly written by Moses from tales passed down by word of mouth? The creation tale is so obviously not true, unless the first humans were microscopic single celled organisms. You then have to believe that the Earth is only approximately 6,000 years old based on the lineages of the Bible. The talking snake (Satan), the magic tree, Eve being made from Adam's rib & Adam naming all of the animals (trillions of them) are just a few of the tales you are taking as fact, and that's just in the first book.

Based on their previous comments, I can see why Guy, Sark & Blogger would have no problem voting for someone who believes that the Garden of Eden was actually in Missouri. Why? Because Joseph Smith said so! Different religion, but the same crazy myths.

guy faulkes said...

Opoib/Lpov and ITCM,

We have not poured as much pollution in the atmosphere in all history as has one volcano eruption. There is no man made climate change.

The Big Bang is a theory. So is evolution. For that matter, so is creationism. And to top it off, evolution and creationism are not necessarily in opposition. There is a school of thought that God is not finished with us yet. These people are of the opinion that it is presumptuous to beleive that a day to God is 24 hours just because that is how long it takes for the Earth to make one revolution. After all, He made a lot of planets.

In any event your opinions are made out of your version of religious faith as much as are ours. You know it, but refuse to admit it. As Sark says, feel fee to believe what you ant. Your beliefs do not bother us as ours do you.

Ours bother you so much you try to use government intervention to control them while at the same time you wail and gnash your teeth over the separation of church and state (which in reality instead of your opinion only means there is to be no official religion in this country, not that religion is banned).

I am still waiting for information about your spaghetti monster. Until you tell me about him, I cannot help you prove or disprove his existence.

Anonymous said...

Which religious belief is the right one and why?

ITCM said...

Guy, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a parody religion. It was used to attack a Kansas school board who wanted to teach Intelligent Design in science classes as an alternate to evolution. The claim was that the church of the flying spaghetti monster was a religion as well and should be taught as an alternative to science. It has since grown into an outlook on debunking the religious right when they try to push their views into education or politics.

It's kind of like the teapot that is orbiting the sun. It's there, but there's no proof for it.

Opoib said...

Guy Faulkes, please do not join Sarcrazien in proving yourself a liar. You have never seen me comment on the climate warming debate here.

If so show it to me. If not retract your statement or claim it as the lie it is.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM & Opube- What makes you so dogmatic? Perhaps the Big Bang was by intelligent design or creationism. Perhaps evolution was by intelligent design or creationism. Many scientists are opened minded to this and not so dead-set in their beliefs as you two.
You both prove my point that liberals are closed-minded.

Anonymous said...

Closed minded to ignorance.

guy faulkes said...

Closed minded because they are ignorant.

Saying something that disagrees with your (religious) beliefs is not a lie, Opoib/Lpov. The comment was to both you and ITCM. He did say something.

Pay attention if you can. Focus.

ITCM said...

I said a lot of things, Guy, without resorting to name calling...unlike you and Sark: (Closed minded, ignorant). What's that phrase, the pot calling the kettle black?

Conservatives can't stand atheists, this whole thread proves that.

Opoib said...

Guy LIAR Faulkes. I challenged you to show where "I" have made any comments on global warming.

You have not therefore you are a liar. It is a shame your credibility means so little here you would trade it for making an false statement about a poster here just for the chance to insult them.

Opoib said...

Sarcrazien. Perhaps the FSM is real . It is just as plausible as your beliefs. I have no belief in any diety.

I would be ashamed if I was you continuing to post lies, just so you and Guy can pull each others happy parts to the right.

Have you two so little pride in your own reputations that resorting to lies is your only retort?

Anonymous said...

For republican's, obfuscation and prevarication are the new truth:

"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." -Karl Rove

guy faulkes said...

ITCM, what name did I call you?

Opiob/Lpov, was not the post that is relevant to your complaint relative to your asinine complaint addressed to both you and ITCM? You are worse than a liar, you are a troll.

Opoib said...

Guy Liar Faulkes, I ask again show me where I have made any posts dealing with climate change.

If not your are a LIAR. I am no troll but you and Sarcrazien are joining an elite club of those who will say anything just to insult, even if it proves them the liars they are.

Anonymous said...

They create their own reality. Facts have no value. If a liberal/Democrat says it, it's false. If a conservative/republican says it, it's gospel.

This group argues like high school seniors or college freshman with no real world experience and an idealized weltanshauung. They are angry and do not know why. They have advantages yet, feel taken advantage of. It's a selfish, narrow, limited mindset. I would pray for you, but I'm atheist.

Anonymous said...

I think they were booing each other! They had Clinton and a film of Ted Kennedy there and had the chutzpah to talk about "war on women".

Too bad John Edwards had a scheduling conflict!

ITCM said...

There are a lot of instances to back up these claims, and I agree with you LPOV.

Obama felt it necessary to (re)include the statement about Jerusalem in the platform, as I know that I make decisions to appease others all the time too. That is what people do - it's a fact of life.

With all of the craziness of the Middle East, I would leave it out too. Let's make sure to state that Berlin is Germany's capital, Moscow is Russia's and Tokyo is Japan's, etc. etc. etc. Why aren't they mad at us?

ITCM said...

Oh, I see you removed LPOV's post before I finished with my writeup. You know, it's not a good debate if you don't allow opposing views to post here. You may have banned LPOV because he/she said things you did not want to hear, but that is what democracy is for. A one-sided debate is very controlling, almost Republican in nature.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM- You don't know the whole story. The Screen name Liberal POV has posted the same words over and over like a broken record. He has also posted some gross comments not fit for a political blog. His Rick Santorum comments come to mind. He is a blog troll and disrupts the posts adding absolutely nothing to the debate. He is consistently moronic to the point it has to be purposeful or from a deranged mind. He volunteered to leave the blog if asked, he was asked, and did not keep his word.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM- The Liberal POV comment above yours has been posted 100s of times. It makes no sense, it is not worthy of comment, and is a good example of his comments deleted by this blog.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM- You be the judge.

Proof: "Liberal POV said...
If my post were not deleted, there would be no need to repost."

Sarkazein said...

Our Embassies being sacked and burned with staff being murdered, our President ignoring and insulting our best ally in the region, the Middle East being taken over by the Muslim Brotherhood with the Obama's support, fewer people employed now then when Obama took Office, more people on food stamps and government support, the people divided to a point not seen in my lifetime, the national and the deficit sky rocketing.... four more years?

ITCM said...

Sark, you know as well as I do that there will never be peace in the Middle East. Are you saying that it is Obama's fault that J. Christopher Stevens died? That he is the one who upset the Muslims with the film? I think this just proves the film correct if their response to an anti-Muslim sentiment is to raid a foreign embassy and kill the wicked infidels. The whole cause of the unrest there and the attack on America is due to religious opposition.

I disagree that Obama insulted Israel. He reinstated the platform. Ehud Barak said, "But I should tell you honestly that this administration under President Obama is doing in regard to our security more than anything that I can remember in the past."

Also, poverty is falling and Obama's approval rate is rising. I think the Mittbot 3000 is going to have its hands full in November.

Anonymous said...

Poverty is falling? We have appx half of the country on some sort of government welfare. Average family income is down about 5k since obama took office. where is poverty falling?

Anonymous said...

Google is your friend!

Poverty Level 2012 Highest In Over 40 Years As Obama and Romney Fight For Votes

ITCM said...

CNN had an article today: "NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Middle-class families continued to suffer in the aftermath of the Great Recession, and the poverty rate fell slightly, according to U.S. Census Bureau data released Wednesday."

ITCM said...

It's not much, but hopefully, it will be a continuing trend.

Anonymous said...

The highest poverty rate in the history of the country drops one TENTH of a point and that's what you have to try to show support for Obama? It's still the highest rate in history and higher than any but the Obama previous record!

Sarkazein said...

ITCM- Obama said he could handle it, he hasn't. He has helped Islamic Fundamentalists gain power (Muslim brotherhood). Obama was beyond naive in his 2008 campaign rhetoric. The results are coming in. Hilary Clinton is an inexperienced coat tail rider. Her results are in.

There are a few insults to Israel you might have missed. This is the time when the US President should be showing publicly his strongest support of Israel. Our support should be a deterrent. You have to remember how liberals thought Obama was going to make nice in the Middle East. Nobel Peace Prize for example.

Do I blame Obama for the ambassador's death ? He's in charge, he supported the Arab Spring, here are the results.

ITCM said...

It's as if you are saying that it is all Obama's fault - how could it possibly be one person's fault? He came into office having to deal with leftover crap from the previous party's term. Wasn't it on anyone's radar before 2008 that the extreme loaning by big banks, the rich getting richer, among other debt problems would eventually cause a crisis? It's unrealistic to blame Obama for things like this or the large gas prices. When you have crazed wars going on, offshore drilling disasters, greedy oil companies & execs and nobody willing to attempt plans for alternate energy, how can prices do anything but skyrocket? Could it be the fact that President Obama could have done so much more if he didn't have a majority of Congress that hated him and opposing his every move? Me thinks so.

Romney dealt with the Libya situation really well, don't you think? He has absolutely no empathy for anyone and is unable to feel emotion.

NewGuy said...

ITCM ....Obama had a veto proof majority in congress for 2 years so it can't be all the fault of a Republican Congress.
Consider also that the reason we have such a large majority in the House is because people were dissatisfied with the results of Obama's first 2 years with a Republican House.

Finally, he said he was going to take the partisanship out....he hasn't done so. If he can't move his agenda through congress, then he isn't the leader we need! Clinton had most of his success when he had a Republican congress.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM- You can make all the excuses you want for Obama, but the fact is he can't do the job he said he could. All Presidents have had to deal with the opposite Party. Except for Jimmy Carter and Obama for his first two years. Both are miserable failures.
Jimmy said "Trust me" and Obama said "Yes we can".

He said he would fundamentally change the USA. He has, and for the worse. Were/are we not supposed to fight it?

Sarkazein said...

ITCM- To add, Obama's priorities is what gave him a failed presidency.
The financial crisis caused by government forced secondary mortgage collapse was less important to him than shoring up the union pensions and Obamacare.
Not only bad policy, but divisive.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM- You are a hardcore liberal. So I would like your opinion on why the forged birth certificate, now proven by two different entities to be fake, is of no concern to Obama supporters?

ITCM said...

Sark, this has to stop at some point. You're a "birther" as well? How is Donald doing? Is Obama a secret Muslim? Are you sure that you're not my redneck brother-in-law? Geez....

As I recall, the White House produced President Obama's birth certificate long ago. It's only the conspiracy theorists who call it a fake - kind of like the ones who think the Bush administration brought down the twin towers so that Bush Jr. would have reason to go to war against Iraq and finish his daddy's job. Just let the man do his job, please.

Anonymous said...

Seeing as how "the man" has spent more hours playing golf than he has meeting with his own jobs council, I'm not sure he is all that interested in doing his job.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM- The "birth certificate" the WH produced has been proven a forgery or fake. Does that mean nothing to you? Forget about the birther dodge, what about the fake doc?
Or worse, have you not heard?

Sarkazein said...

ITCM said- "Just let the man do his job, please."

Please expand on that one.

Anonymous said...

Birtherism?

Oh god just when I think you couldn't possibly make me laugh any more with your posts Sark.

Welcome to irrelevance town population one more nutjob teabagger.

Oh and a debunked one too

http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-liberal/2012/09/the-weird-science-of-the-israeli-birther-or-another-corsi-puff-piece-2447252.html

Seriously you guys are fun to prove wrong. Pity you're just so amazingly bad at it (I mean rehashing world net daily stories? really?) that once again this took me 10 minutes with google.

But that aside, just to keep it fun. Can you also prove to me that Mitt Romney is not a unicorn? Where's the papers to prove that?

Also, how bout Mccain? How do we know he's not a sleeper cell agent to make sure Panama keeps the canal?

ITCM said...

Sark, what I'm saying is that it seems President Obama has to deal with all of the crazies out there who are accusing him of not being born in the U.S., being a secret Muslim, being a Socialist, being against saluting the flag, etc., etc.

Why don't you and those who think like you use your time for something more productive? Oh yeah, he's going to take away your religion and guns too!

Sarkazein said...

The Sheriff in Arizona says experts have proof the "birth certificate" given by the WH is fake.

The liberal answer is like the "racist" call. "Birther!" they say. Yet not one comment about the birth certificate. I asked about the birth certificate only, not where he was born.

"Leave him alone!" cry the same voices who never gave President George W Bush a moments rest.
The slight consistency is the liberals don't care about Obama's forged birth certificate and they didn't care that Dan Rather's document against President Bush was forged.

Try as you might, the calls of racism and birther and homophobe do not stifle my debate.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM--".... being a Socialist.." Really?

Opoib said...

Sarcrazien I do not think there is enough lithium in the world to stifle the voices in your head long enough for you to have a rational debate about anything.

Just the opinion of one of my kind Opoib

Sarkazein said...

Opuib wrote- "Sarcrazien I do not think there is enough lithium in the world to stifle the voices in your head long enough for you to have a rational debate about anything. "


Still no comment? You follow your fellow liberals well.

Sarkazein said...

Minutes of the meeting on January 11, 1996, of the New Party’s Chicago chapter read as follows:
Barack Obama, candidate for State Senate in the 13th Legislative District, gave a statement to the membership and answered questions. He signed the New Party “Candidate Contract” and requested an endorsement from the New Party. He also joined the New Party.

ITCM said...

Sark, what does the New Party issue have to do with anything?

Are you seriously saying that you believe the birther claims coming from a racist Arizonian Sheriff? He was doing nothing but drawing attention away from himself and his agencies mis-handling of sex-crime cases and the unlawful racial profiling of all Latinos in Arizona. This guy is the worst of the worst - a racist scumbag (so is the Governor of that state, as far as I'm concerned). Hawaii has verified President Obama's birth certificate as genuine time after time. He was born in HONOLULU - get over it! The last time I looked, Hawaii was a U.S. state 2 years before Obama was born.

ITCM said...

Back on the religion topic of this thread...September 11th will always be a day of remembrance, but people need to also remember that not everyone in our country is Christian. You may think they are, but that's because you have your Jesus goggles on. President Obama said for everyone to have a "moment of silence" and perform community service. That's the way it should be handled - a moment of silence allows everyone to remember in the way that they prefer, and it offends no one. How do you think the conservative biased FOX News reacted? Exactly like the Republicans here would react. "He left God out of the memorial speech". Well guess what, based on some great research by Media Matters - former President George W. never mentioned God in his 2006, 2007 or 2008 services either. How dare he!

The U.S. is immersed in religion up to our eyeballs. Of course the Democrats were booing the decision at the DNC - religion doesn't need to have its thumb on top of politics. The only reason Obama makes comments now and then referring to God is so the religious nutjobs don't freak out and storm embassies and government agencies like the "insulted" Muslims are doing right now. Christianity is intolerant to unbelievers and is no more a religion of peace than Islam is. Have you guys actually read the Bible? Not the fluffy story parts - but the passages that make you scratch your head and say WTF?

Sarkazein said...

ITCM said...
"Sark, what does the New Party issue have to do with anything?"

It is/was a Socialist Party. He's a Socialist, with a forged birth certificate that probably reregistered as a foreign exchange student in college... for whatever reason.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM- Racist Sheriff? Thanks, but I'll prove my own points, I don't need your help.

Nobody said...

ITCM,
Do you really think the "religious nutjobs" would storm embassies and government agencies if Obama did not occasionally make religious statements? If so, you are even more ignorant than I thought. Why didn't Christians act like the mobs we're watching in the Middle East today when Mary was portrayed in a painting covered in elephant dung, or another artist submerged a crucifix in urine and called it "art." You simply cannot make any rational comparison between Christians and Muslims today. The only comparison liberals can make is between Islam today and Christianity of 500 years ago, a rather telling truth. You did make one telling statement that Obama only makes religious references is to appease people. I guess you are saying Obama does not mean what he says when he speaks of God, which makes him a liar. But we already knew that.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM wrote- "Obama makes comments now and then referring to God is so the religious nutjobs don't freak out and storm embassies and government agencies like the "insulted" Muslims are doing right now."

To a sycophant Obama can do no wrong. Here ITCM rationalizes something Obama is doing. Something normally ITCM would disagree with. But the sycophant turns into something he wants it to be. Even if, like Nobody says, it is really calling Obama a liar, the sycophant mind will rationalize. This is how Obama got elected while no one knew who he is. People projected whatever they wanted Obama to be.

ITCM said...

Why do you not believe in the religion of Islam? Is it because you happened to be born into a Christian home?

It is evident that my comments that criticize religion offend you, so my points were proven. Christianity has its extremists just the same as Muslims. Have you ever seen an abortion clinic bombed or a Dr. killed? Have you ever seen parents shun their child because they were gay? Slavery wasn't very long ago either, but the Bible has a set of rules about how to handle your slaves. So, I guess that one must be OK.

Sarkazein said...

ITCM- Christians by the thousands died in the Civil War to stop slavery here.
Your comment of 12:20 reads as a personal problem you are suffering. Many gay people have parents who did not shun them. Many of those parents are still religious. Give it time. Some parents live to be grandparents. This is no small thing to them. They lived their life giving birth to and raising a child with the natural hope to have grandchildren. It has little to do with religion in most cases.

Nobody said...

"It is evident that my comments that criticize religion offend you, so my points were proven. Christianity has its extremists just the same as Muslims."

As a matter of fact, they do. I actually support and respect your right to believe as you will, but what irritates me are the condescending and derogatory remarks you and OPOIB consistently work into your posts. "Imaginary Sky Friend," or "Religious Nutjobs" are comments that are unnecessary and intentionally provocative in rational discussion. They also demonstrate that you automatically assume your own superiority over anyone professing faith in religion. A friend of mine taught Biology at LSU and was also active in our church. His scientific knowledge did not cause him to abandon faith -- he simply stated that science and religion attempt to answer two different questions. Science attempts to answer "How?" while religion attempts to answer, "Why?" I watched a Learning Channel special on the big bang a few years back, and apparently, the theory is that at the instant of the Big Bang, all matter in the universe was contained in a space the size of the tip of a sharpened pencil. Then, the Big Bang occurred with such tremendous force that within less than a second, that matter was expanding, creating the universe as we know it today. Why did the Bang occur suddenly out of nowhere? What existed just prior to the Big Bang? If the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into (what exists beyond the outer reaches of the universe?)? Why does anything have to exist at all??? Why is there matter, and electrons and protons and neutrons in the first place? No one knows definitively the answers to these "Why" questions. People who believe as you do believe there is no reason for our existence and simply accept that it just happened -- we are all just one big cosmic accident. People of faith believe something caused these events and that there is a purpose to our lives. Is that deserving or your ridicule?

ITCM said...

Nobody, I understand all of what you are saying. I'm calling the extremists "religious nutjobs" because that's what they are. It does not mean that you are - I grew up Christian, so I understand where you are coming from. Many enjoy the peace that having a personal savior brings them. It's those that force their beliefs into the Govt. that bother me.

Sark, not a personal problem of mine. I've just witnessed this happening to one of my friends. No psychotherapy needed, sorry.

What offends me is moving to Boone and having all of my neighbors ask me during our very first conversation, "What church do you go to?" Isn't that assuming a little too much? It also offends me when other kids tell mine that they'll go to hell if they don't believe in God or Jesus. I believed in hell as a kid and it seriously screwed me up until I put 2 + 2 together and realized that it was just as imaginary as any other story. If the notion of "hell" wasn't looming out there for most believers, do you think that a majority of them would not put so much emphasis on their belief system? It's almost a threat and I feel a form of child abuse to scare developing children with this concept. I don't force my children to believe in the supernatural & it's evident that they are better off for it. They've never feared things that go bump in the night, ghosts, devils, Jesus watching their every move - fears that I grew up with. They focus on their sports, school work, and family. We seem to have more time for all of this because we're not going to church every Sunday or Wednesday, tent revivals or VBS. If they want to do all of these things, that will be their choice now or when they grow older. For now, I offer them answers to what can be explained & let them know that it may only be a matter of time before more unanswered concepts will have an answer. So much has already been answered in such a short time that I feel strongly in support of basing my understanding of the universe on facts.

Opoib said...

Well said ITCM.

Nobody said...

ITCM,
Your post fails to explain why you and OPOIB consistantly insert demeaning comments into your posts without regard to who reads them. Truth is you have NO respect for the right of others to believe as they choose without condescention -- you are guilty of what you accuse of others. You did it again in your last comment by stating that you realized it was all imaginary. Are you so ignorant of the way those comments will be received by people of faith or do you just not care? I realize you may rationalize by saying, "They do it too," but you are now just guilty of the same things you object to; hard to claim any sort of moral or intellectual superiority that way. I really want you to answer these questions, since your beliefs are based on fact:

What caused the big bang to happen?

What existed just prior to the big bang?

What is the universe expanding into?

Why does anything have to exist at all? (I really want to know the answer to this one, so I look forward to your enlightening me).

Opoib said...

Nobody, If I personally see religion as imaginary friends that's not me saying I you have NO respect for the right of others to believe as they choose without condescention.

It is a statement of my opinion. Just as you saying you believe in deity is a statement of your opinion. I do not want anyone to not have the right to worship what ever they choose. I just do not want those that worship pushing religious views in to politics. That's just my opinion again.

I think the pledge of allegiance was just fine and properly patriotic before " Under God " was added to it in the 50's anti communist furor.

I do not claim to speak for ITCM as that would be wrong of me. I have been spoken for here many times and not once was that statement accurate.

I would be happy to try and explain to the best of my knowledge any answers I can to your questions. But I feel it is a topic better discussed on a different blog then here. If you would like those topics posted please let me know.

I admit I have succumbed to the name calling and I know it is wrong, but at some point the saying becomes true. Do not argue with a idiot they will only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

There are only two who i have stooped to that level with, and they know who they are as they both attack with fervor the second I post.

Yet they both continue to prove them selves liars by posting that I have said something or am something I am not.Regardless of the damage it does to the perceived reputation or intellectual capacity they hope to display here.

Opoib said...

My apologies to the readers i made a grammatical error and wish to correct it.

This sentence in the beginning of my post to Nobody should read,

I have respect for the right of others to believe as they choose without condescention.

I you have NO respect for the right of others to believe as they choose without condescention.

Nobody said...

OPOIB,
I respect the tone of your post, however, as I said in my previous post, consistently inserting phrases such as "imaginary friends" is unnecessarily insulting and demeaning. I could almost excuse it when the blog discussion becomes heated, but it drives even the more even-tempered posters away - I really have no interest in engaging with someone who demonstrates total disregard for the beliefs of others. And this is what your constant insertion of these comments does. I would be very interested in your answers to the questions I asked above...

Sarkazein said...

ITCM wrote- "What offends me is moving to Boone and having all of my neighbors ask me during our very first conversation, "What church do you go to?"

If this offends you, it is your problem. All liberals have a need to feel offended or to be victims. The stretch made here is award winning. Some other liberal school principal said peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are racist. True story.

ITCM said...

Nobody, as you are aware, these are questions that have no definite answer -- yet. I'm more secure in science finding answers than believing that a god created the universe. If that's the case, then it's easy to beg the question, "who created God?" Who created the being that created God, and so on. Then, which god created the universe? Did he win over all of the other gods throughout history to be the supreme god? It's really just a never-ending paradox.

Sark, I think you understood what I was getting at with my statement about being offended by neighbors asking specific questions like that right off the bat. Why is it acceptable to even assume I attend a church? They're expecting me to say Mt. Vernon or another Christian establishment. I may be Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Atheist, it doesn't really matter. I don't ask my new neighbors if they've read "On the Origin of Species" or follow the writings of Harris or Dawkins. It's a private matter in my opinion, which is why I guess if I wasn't hounded with religious dogma all the time I may not be so outspoken about atheism.

Opoib said...

ITCM, if i may be so bold I think many of the more devout believers in a diety here feel that it is a personal offence to them if somebody does not believe in the same thing.

When I came here 20 plus years ago, I got the same feeling you describe before a hand shake and hello my name is was finished what church are you a member of was always the next question.

Opoib said...

Nobody .I would like to ask you a question. You are a religious person from your posts i take it.

If I live a good life maybe even a great one, helping people doing right by friends, family, and neighbors, but I am not a believer in Christianity will I burn for eternity in a pit of fire?

I do not say that mockingly I want a straight answer from a believer.

Nobody said...

Thanks for admitting that you do not know the answers to my questions and that, essentially, you have FAITH in your atheism. I hope also that both you and OPOIB recognize that demanding that others prove that the flying spaghetti monster does not exist is a ludicrous argument when, in the end, you are unable to give a rational, scientific and fact based response to my serious and earnest questions. In the end, we all choose what we believe. You are perfectly free to choose atheism - I will not consistently insert demeaning statements regarding your faith. This is a pointless and endless discussion I will no longer engage in.

Opoib said...

Nobody when I use a term such as "imaginary friend", 1st it has been in reply to a personal attack. Second to this atheist and I only speak for myself the word "god" refers to a mythical being hence "imaginary friend"

For me to use the word God as in it refers to something that exists would be inaccurate for me.

It is the same as saying I believe in any mythological being.

Opoib said...

Nobody, Thanks for your reply in a civil tone. I made the offer to try and explain my stance with science.

It is fine if you choose not to have that discussion. I just ask one thing, please do not refer to my and only my not believing in a deity as a faith.

I do believe in any faith.

Well maybe I have a hope that the Steelers will win this Sunday. But I do not ask for divine intervention to make it happen.

Sarkazein said...

Opoib wrote- "ITCM, if i may be so bold I think many of the more devout believers in a diety here feel that it is a personal offence to them if somebody does not believe in the same thing."

This is exactly how your comments read. If you went back and read all your comments about religion, you would see it is you who is dogmatic.

Nobody has the writing skill to word this thought precisely in his last comments. He is spot on. My tin foil hat is off to him.

ITCM writes he is offended by people wanting to invite him or direct him to their church. He is offended by religion. You two liberals are as dogmatic as I have ever read. Your Atheism does not offend me until your kind try to spread it in court.

Opoib said...

Sarcrazien, what is the secret hand shake and what are membership dues to join the liars club here ?

Just one of my kind Opoib

ITCM said...

OK, who here has given up drinking Dr. Pepper yet?