This blog,originally founded by Blogger, who is listed in Marquis Who's Who and is a recipient of the Albert Nelson Marquis Lifetime Achievement Award. He holds a theological degree and a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Taught Psychology for 32 years and is now Professor Emeritus. Is a board-certified psychologist and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in his profession. Ministered as a chaplain, and pastored Baptist and Episcopal churches. Publications cover the integration of psychology and theology. Served in the Army, the Merchant Marines and the Peace Corps.

Thursday, July 23, 2009

Health Care Reformer Claims Don't Add Up

Investors Business Daily

17 comments:

Liberal POV said...

Blogger

How about answering why US citizens pays 16% of GNP when Canada and other Developed nation of Japan, Germany, France pay no more than 10% of GNP and we the US citizens don't have everyone covered and we are 38 in life expectancy?

Oatz said...

Harry "This War Is Lost" Reid announced today that there would be no health care vote until after the August recess.
The AP reported:

Senate Democratic leaders on Thursday abandoned plans for a vote on health care before Congress' August recess, dealing a blow to President Barack Obama's ambitious timetable to revamp the nation's $2.4 trillion system of medical care.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., delivered the official word on what had been expected for weeks, saying, "It's better to have a product based on quality and thoughtfulness rather than try to jam something through."

Reader said...

Thank you Lord.

matt said...

POV,
The stats on our health care have only worsened as the government has spent more money on it.
We now spend more money than ANY other country on our citizens health care... Compare that to a mere 20 or 30 years ago when what the government spent was drastically lower and our free market health care system was the envy of the world.

Lets see...what has the government laid its hands on recently that has been good?

We have the government thinking they know about "Energy Reform" - which pushed ethanol...that failed pretty miserably.

We have Tarp and all the bailouts (under Bush and Obama)...those have resulted in the largest deficit and debt level in history, along with no help to unemployment or real growth anywhere in our economy. It has also resulted in a massive devaluation of the dollar.

We have the government creating Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac thinking that it could run the mortgage industry in America...because "every American should own a house" ...that created the largest bubble (arguably) in the history of our country and resulted in a net loss of about $40 TRILLION dollars in wealth around the world.

We have the government creating Ginnie Mae for student loans, making money too "easy" for nearly any student to get...resulting in a huge increase in college tuition across the country because universities know money is easy to get for students through these loans. Do you know anyone who worked their way through college (not community college,,,but a university) anymore? I worked 40+ hours a week and couldn't come close to paying tuition (even as in-state) along with rent/food/etc etc....Its impossible thanks to Ginnie Mae.

We have the government pushing mandatory wage increases...resulting in companies either 1) raising prices or 2) cutting hours/jobs. All because some feel that every job, even low skilled ones, should pay a wage you can live on and support a family. Should every kid with a paper route be forced to be payed enough to support his family? No, another failure of the government controlling the economy that has failed.

Those are the 5 that come to mind first. What makes you so confident that this same government can fix health care.


My favorite thing to look at after considering all our governments blunders is the technology sector, which is very rarely supported or interfered with in any way by the government. We see prices drop every month. Compare that to health care, college tuition, oil prices, etc etc. It doesn't happen. Why? Because the free market runs things better than any government. Show me a case where that is not true.

matt said...

I'd also like to add, POV, that I just bought my health insurance since I was no longer covered under my parent's plan being out of college now. It is 53$ a month, for a $7000 deductible, also includes 3 $1000 "accidents" (broken arms/fingers/ankles) a year and 1 'free' (no co-pay) doctor visit per year. $30 co-pay for doctor visits after that. I didn't add dental but it was $12 a month more...not really sure in the specifics of that.

My point on all that is that I don't find that unreasonable. It is there for if something terrible happens to me. Which is what health insurance should be. But out idea of what "health insurance" and "health care" is has gotten so out of whack. Consider your auto insurance. It doesn't cover oil changes, gasoline, new tires or any regular maintenance. It covers something catastrophic, and if you want to pay a lot more, minor things as well.
Consider your home insurance, it doesn't cover broken windows, holes in your wall or replacing old carpet with new carpet....it covers major disasters.

But we have this idea that health insurance should cover everything and be affordable to everyone. I can't afford a $100 deductible and collision on my auto insurance...should the government mandate that insurance companies make that level of coverage affordable to me?

I know this defers slightly from the topic of 'health care' (life expectancy and so forth that you brought up) but it will be included in any health care reform debate....so i thought it was close enough related.

Liberal POV said...

Matt

Answer the question above.

How do you know the insurance will not drop you if you were to get a serious condition?

What will the price be once you have a wife and children?

Can you afford to pay out $7000.00 in medical expenses? Suppose the woman you fall in love with has a preexsisting health problem? How much does it go up for a young married couple planning to start a family?

I ike the government run postal service, I think the people in the park service do a great job.

Oatz said...

The Cambridge and area police unions voiced their support Friday for Sgt. James Crowley and demanded an apology from President Obama for saying officers "acted stupidly" for arresting black Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. at his home.

"His remarks were obviously misdirected but made it worse yet by suggesting somehow this case should remind us of a history of racial abuse by law enforcement," Dennis O'Connor, president of the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, said at a news conference.

"Whatever may be the history, we deeply resent the implications and reject any suggestion that in this case or any other case that they've allowed a person's race to direct their activities. However we hope they will reflect upon their past comments and apologize to the men and women of the Cambridge Police Department."

The White House said today that President Obama regrets the furor over his comments.
...But, not the comments.

matt said...

POV,

DO you really believe that a universal health care plan will make that percentage smaller??! There is no way it will.

In 1980, health care costs 8% of GNP. So lets get government out of it, and return it to what it was 30 years ago.

You asked if I can pay $7000, and If something so bad happened that costs, say, $6000, then yes, I would find I way to pay for it. $6000 is not going to bankrupt me and ruin me for life. What would is a $100,000 bill. That is why I have health insurance.

Is a $6000 repair bill on your house affordable to you? Probably, but what you possibly wipe you out is if a fire destroyed the whole house. That is what insurance is...it is not there to pay every nickel and dime.

If they drop me after a serious injury I would probably take them to court after overlooking the plan's fine print. (guess I should do that now).

I have absolutely no idea what this plan would cost for a wife and child. But then we get to the issue of personal responsibility again. Should I be getting married and having kids if I can not afford it? I answer no.

matt said...

POV,
To add to my previous post,

How do you know that you and your family will not be dropped under a universal health care plan?

This has occurred in Canada where dental has been dropped from the universal plan, and certain "expensive" drugs for cancer that have proven to extend the life of patients is dropped as well, because of its cost.

Now Canadian residents need dental coverage and another plan of health insurance if they want to be covered for extreme situations.

Reader said...

Matt, did you happen to see Huckabee the other night on Canada's universal health care?
They stay on a list until the government decides to give them care. Period. Canadians are coming to the US for care, what does that tell you? I will keep my personal health insurance... Lib can have my part. As long as God is willing to give me the means to pay my premiums, I will continue to work.

matt said...

Reader,
I didn't catch it, but have done a good bit of research into it, and also our VA system, which is our government's universal health care...and it sucks. The government had its chance with Veterans..and they failed...why even think they could make it work if 200 million more "apply"?

Reader said...

Socialism.

Wolf's Head said...

Actually, health care reformer's claims DO add up.

To Trillions of lost dollars, trillions in additional taxes, lost wealth due to inflation, and DECREASED health care for all of us, including the elderly.

Some deal.

oatz said...

Section 1233 of HR 3200, the healthcare reform measure under consideration, mandates "Advance Care Planning Consultation." Under the proposal, all senior citizens receiving government medical care would be required to undergo these counseling sessions every five years. Further reading of the law reveals that these sessions are nothing more than a not-so-veiled attempt to convince the elderly to forego treatment. HR 3200 calls outright for these compulsory consultations to recommend "palliative care and hospice." These are typically administered in the place of treatment intended to prolong life, and instead focus on pain relief until death. These are, of course, reasonable and beneficial options for terminally ill patients and their families.

But this legislation doesn't stop there. Section 1233 requires "an explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title." But, under the terms of the section, the federal government can compel more frequent end-of-life sessions if it declares a "significant change" in the health of the Medicare recipient, a change that the bill does not confine to fatal illness, but which encompasses broad and abstract conditions described as "chronic," "progressive," or "life-limiting." The bill even empowers physicians to make an "actionable medical order" to "limit some or all specified interventions..." In effect, the government can determine that a "life-limiting" condition demands the withholding of treatment.

The bill puts the Secretary of Health in charge of life and death decisions coming out of these sessions. Under the heading, "QUALITY REPORTING INITIATIVE," the bill says, "For purposes of reporting data on quality measures for covered professional services furnished during 2011 and any subsequent year, to the extent that measures are available, the Secretary shall include quality measures on end of life care and advanced care planning that have been adopted or endorsed by a consensus-based organization, if appropriate. Such measures shall measure both the creation of and adherence to orders for life-sustaining treatment."

Liberal POV said...

GOP

I see no one has answered the first question, but just posted insurance propaganda lies.

Why do US citizens pays 16% of GNP when Canada and other developed nations of Japan, Germany, France pay no more than 10% of GNP and we the US citizens don't have everyone covered and we are 38 in life expectancy?

Liberal POV said...

Matt

" Do you know anyone who worked their way through college (not community college,,,but a university) anymore? I worked 40+ hours a week and couldn't come close to paying tuition (even as in-state) along with rent/food/etc etc....Its impossible thanks to Ginnie Mae. "

Matt if you can get back in school please get some logic studies in.

The best investment any government can make is to invest in the education of the next generation.

Matt's logic says he will do better without low interest loans, grants or state supported universities? Matt thinks learning should only be for those wealthy enough to afford an education without taxpayer help.

Blogger this is the hope of the Republican party?

Matt did you have any civic classes growing up?

How did you gets so old so fast?

oatz said...

The Hill reported:

The White House may only have one of its top officials to blame for its difficulty in passing healthcare, one liberal California Democrat asserted Tuesday.

Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) blamed now-White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel's work as head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), during which he worked to recruit many centrist candidates, resulting in landslide Democratic victories, for difficulties facing House leaders trying to pass reform legislation.

"That may be difficult for Rahm Emanuel, because remember, he recruited most of them," Waters said during an interview on MSNBC when asked if the White House could lean on centrist, Blue Dog Democrats to pass reform legislation.

"Now the chickens have come home to roost," she added.

Waters said that the Congressional Progressive Caucus wouldn't organize candidates to run against the recalcitrant Democrats on healthcare, she could understand why those lawmakers might face primary challenges.