This blog,originally founded by Blogger, who is listed in Marquis Who's Who and is a recipient of the Albert Nelson Marquis Lifetime Achievement Award. He holds a theological degree and a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Taught Psychology for 32 years and is now Professor Emeritus. Is a board-certified psychologist and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in his profession. Ministered as a chaplain, and pastored Baptist and Episcopal churches. Publications cover the integration of psychology and theology. Served in the Army, the Merchant Marines and the Peace Corps.

Monday, October 5, 2009

Obama's Accomplishments. We may survive him after all.

On his Week With George Stephanopoulos' an George Will, both George’s added to the list:
Obama asked Gov. Patterson of New York not to run–he says no.
They asked Andie Romanoff of Colorado not to run–he said no.
They asked Joe Scarnati of Pennsylvania not to run–he said no.
Abroad: Obama ordered Israel to stop the settlements–they didn’t
He told Palestinians to engage with Israel–they didn’t
He told Saudi Arabia to help out–they didn’t.
They asked Iraq to do this or that and they won’t.
He asked Iran to stop building the bomb and they haven’t.
He told Honduras to reinstate their deposed president–they didn’t
He asked China and India to reduce greenhouse gasses–they won’t
He asked NATO to send more troops to Afghanistan, they won’t.
He asked NATO to take Gitmo prisoners–they won’t

157 comments:

guy faulkes said...

This is another crack in Obama's armor. It may be an indication that the ownership of the media by Obama is weakening. Probably not, because comics are different than news commentators.

Sarkazein said...

In watching the video (before it was censored) , I noticed the comic was actually creating a air of sympathy for Obama more than the normal ridicule and hate they create with Conservative politicians.

oatz said...

The federal budget deficit tripled to a record $1.4 trillion for the 2009 fiscal year that ended last week, congressional analysts said Wednesday.

The Congressional Budget Office estimate, while expected, is bad news for the White House and its allies in Congress as they press ahead with health care overhaul legislation that could cost $900 billion over the next decade.

The unprecedented flood of red ink flows from several factors, including a big drop in tax revenues due to the recession, $245 billion in emergency spending on the Wall Street bailout and the takeover of mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Then there is almost $200 billion in costs from President Obama's economic stimulus bill, as well as increases in programs such as unemployment benefits and food stamps.

The previous record deficit was $459 billion and was set just last year.

Hey, here's an idea...
Let's give them health care, too!

guy faulkes said...

This is off topic, but I wondered how POV would respond to this article by a black man.


Black Leaders Ignore Black-on-Black Crime

By E.W. Jackson Sr.
On Thursday, September 24th, after an apparently productive day at Fengler High School in Chicago, Derrion Albert, a black 16 year old honor student was knocked to the ground by a blow to the head with a railroad tie. He was then punched, kicked and stomped. Those who responded to rescue him were too late.

Derrion had walked into the middle of a fight between two rival black gangs. He attempted to help one of the victims in the melee and was killed for his trouble. This took place in Barack Obama's Chicago. All his work for "social justice" did a great deal for Obama, but it did nothing for Derrion Albert. Of course the President is not responsible for this tragedy, but it does expose the fatuous claim that such occurrences are the result of social injustice rather than the personal choice to engage in lawless behavior. The ghettos, drugs, gangs and violence are on display for all to see in spite of Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, Acorn and all the community organizing.

Treating poor black people as victims to be "organized" has been an abject failure. They are human beings to be educated, inspired and required to take responsibility for their own lives. The tragedy here is that Derrion was doing just that and it was working, but the malignant pathology of the ghetto spread to him on that unfortunate day and ended his promising life.

There is another tragedy. The so called black civil rights leaders have been mute. Had this been a white gang attacking a black gang member, they would have jumped in front of every camera and microphone available to decry racism and injustice in America. If it had been a black criminal with a long rap sheet, killed in a confrontation with a white police officer, there would be protests and perhaps riots against systemic racism in the police department.

Yet in this case and others like it, there is a deafening silence from some of the biggest mouths in America. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Julian Bond, Louis Farrakhan and the Congressional Black Caucus see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil. When Prof. Henry Louis Gates, Jr. was arrested by a white police officer, President Barack Obama -- without any facts -- found it necessary to put in his two cents. Here in Chicago, the salient facts are abundantly clear and a heinous murder has been committed in his home town, but the president is silent. Malicious, homicidal maniacs brutally killed a decent young man on the streets Obama "organized," but he has nothing to say. The self-appointed, media supported "black leaders" have not seen fit to hold a press conference or a rally supporting Derrion Albert and his family and condemning the perpetrators of this vicious crime. They have not called for witnesses to come forward.

(see part 2)

guy faulkes said...

part 2

There's a reason for their uncharacteristic silence. Derrion's murder does not fit the black liberation narrative. As one civil rights leader said to me, "If we focus on black on black crime, we let white folks off the hook." Never mind that the leading cause of death among black males ages 18 to 24 is homicide by other black males. In one interview before Obama was elected, Michelle Obama commented on threats to Barack Obama's safety saying, "As a black man, Barack can get shot going to the gas station." What she did not say is that his likely killer would be another black man. Blacks are only 13% of the population, but over 40% of the murder victims. Ninety Three percent of those black victims are killed by other black people. As a black man, I am far more wary of the real black criminal than the imagined white racist.

Absentee fathers, abortion, drug use, gangs and black on black crime have a much greater impact on people's lives than theoretical systemic racism, but these issues do not fit the liberal paradigm to which civil rights leaders are hostage. The problems of the black community must be understood solely as a social justice problem inflicted on blacks by whites. No other explanation is worthy of discussion, and woe to those dare suggest otherwise. In truth the civil rights spokesmen have another agenda which supersedes the well-being of black folks -- their personal financial and political well being.

Liberal benefactors and foundations are not interested in addressing social pathologies which can only be eliminated by change of values, stable families and the willingness of fathers to parent their children. The government's coffers are closed to moral judgments and spirituality. Faith in God, parental love and discipline to instill values of decency and responsibility are the antidotes to gangs, crime and drugs. However, allegations of racism, discrimination and social injustice are far more marketable for the Rainbow Coalition and the NAACP.

The people who killed Derrion are monsters. Monsters come in all colors, but these happen to be black. They are not victims. They are cold-blooded criminals with no regard for human life. Maybe when the so called black leaders start speaking out against gangs and criminals as parasites instead of victims of society, there will be fewer real victims like Derrion Albert.

Liberal POV said...

Guy

You chose a very complex issue.

My own belief is that gangs are a symptom of a failed society.

The author is correct with the following statement "The people who killed Derrion are monsters. Monsters come in all colors, but these happen to be black. They are not victims. They are cold-blooded criminals with no regard for human life. " This is also the description of a mob.


Yes, these people are monsters but our failed society today is producing these monsters.
This is what can happen in large concentration of hopelessness. Where over 10% of the men have criminal records. Remember my point of too many in our prison system.
Mobs are monsters that don't have to answer to morality, much of the conservative movement today is a mob. Look at issues like torture, wanting to refuse medical treatment to undocumented residents, supporting putting 2% of our population behind bars, leaving millions without health care.

We need to study what was being done right to produce more Derrion Alberts.

The Bush Admin cut the funding for neighborhood police walking a beat and getting to know locals that can reduce gangs.

Just across the border from Chicago and Detroit gangs, murder and other crimes is a fraction of that in the USA. Why?

Could it be a better social network? Better political system?

I basically agree with the following statement "In truth the civil rights spokesmen have another agenda which supersedes the well-being of black folks -- their personal financial and political well being."

The question becomes who is to speak for the Derrion Alberts and their families trying their best to escape this environment? Your party wants to paint them all as criminals and freeloaders?

Programs like head start, smaller class room sizes, lots more police walking the streets, after school programs, ACORN ( without corruption)( I do believe ACORN was overly demonized but had leadership problems), Jobs at a living wage, drug treatment programs, decriminalizing drugs and Universal health care will decrease gang participation.

"Liberal benefactors and foundations are not interested in addressing social pathologies which can only be eliminated by change of values, stable families and the willingness of fathers to parent their children. The government's coffers are closed to moral judgments and spirituality. Faith in God, parental love and discipline to instill values of decency and responsibility are the antidotes to gangs, crime and drugs."

I'm not sure what this statement means or the truth of it?

I certainly believe we need stable families and fathers to take responsibilities. This can be difficult if the father is in prison.
Funding of police on the streets and the other thing I mentioned earlier would be a part of this.

I as a liberal am opposed to state supported religion as you should be. You can bet it would be the Rev Wrights( both black and white )that get this funding as they woud work the system to get funding and a very big salary. Speaking of which did you see that Franklin Graham 's salary is $1.2million ?

I believe having Obama as president is a good start to finding answers to this problem.

What's your answer to have more Derrion Alberts and fewer gangs?

Reader said...

Yep, that's one of Obama's accomplishments Guy, the Chicago peacemaker.

oatz said...

I love its Bush's fault. Never mind that Detroit and Chicago are hot beds for Conservative Republican political machines, not. Just like with Katrina a Democrat Mayor and Governor sat on their hands not requesting federal Disaster help for days, yet Blame Bush. Hell Bush is now the reason Chicago got snubbed for the Olympics. Democratic play book when faced with facts or a lack of IDEAS, Blame Bush.

Although nobody in the current White House will give him credit did anyone notice how the Obama administration paid silent tribute to the Bush administration by upholding all the Patriot Act provisions (which he inherited) that were due to expire? A real big difference between campaigning and actually running the country, huh BikerBard and Liberal POV. Gitmo closed yet? The year is almost over the clocks still ticking on the First Obama presidential decree to close Gitmo.

guy faulkes said...

What's your answer to have more Derrion Alberts and fewer gangs? - POV

Severe punishment for violent criminals. When they get back on the street, heir friends should ask what happened to you. They should answer "You never want to go where I have been." Make dealing drugs a capital offense or give them away. I do not care which. Stop paying for women that have many children by different men in order to obtain more money from entitlement programs. As it is not the children's fault this is a hard decision. Cut taxes and spending to stimulate the economy so that there are opportunity for young poor people to find employment. Turn inner city schools into places of learning instead of drug bazaars.

The liberals have caused this problem by their new slavery. As the article said, entitlement programs used to create and expand voting blocks are the cause of the problem. If a person is given something he does not value it. He has to work for it in order to realize its worth.

Let me summarize. If we take away this new slavery, then people will be forced to accept personal responsibility. If we let the free market system work, then there will be jobs for people. If violent criminals feared prison so bad they would rather work than steal, then crime would drop. Crime would also drop if we take away the profit motive from selling drugs or make selling drugs result in a quick trip to a graveyard.

What does Franklin Graham's salary have to do with anything. His salary is whatever people think he is worth. If his supporters did not want him to make what he makes, then they would not give to his causes.

Liberal POV said...

Guy

One of the problems we have is excons come back onto the streets often more dangerous than they were when they went to prison. Prison is a negitive learning ground.

Prisons often create the real monsters. Shorter sentences might accutally work better than long sentences? Once these people become part of the criminal justice system we have little chance of change. The answer must be long before that.

The big question. Why is crime, gangs and violents in Canada just a few miles from Chagio and Detroit a fraction of those cities?

What do you think of the following programs?

Programs like head start, smaller class room sizes, lots more police walking the streets, after school programs, ACORN ( without corruption)( I do believe ACORN was overly demonized but had leadership problems), Jobs at a living wage, drug treatment programs, decriminalizing drugs and Universal health care will decrease gang participation.


Do we know what was being done right in Derrion Albert's life?

Sarkazein said...

Povvy- It is simple, the more the government gives to people who have not earned it, the worse they get. This is your "failed society" AKA the "Great Society".
The "no self-responsibility" or self-reliance eats away at civilization, you are witnessing it's results, and it is Liberalism in bloom.

guy faulkes said...

POV, you are correct as to the fact prisons are currently schools for criminals. This needs to change. Shorter sentences and treatment such as you propose would just make the situation worse.

Prison should be places of punishment. Hard labor, chain gangs, etc. are entirely acceptable. Our troops have a much rougher time in boot camp than criminals do in prisons. Prisons should be something criminals fear.

I do not think more police walking the street would necessarily decrease crime. Police usually are only somewhat effective in catching criminals after the crime has been committed. If you really want to reduce crime what do you think about making it mandatory that everyone be required to qualify with a gun before he can get a drivers license or ride public transportation? I am not saying they have to carry a gun because you cannot make someone accept responsibility for his own safety, but you could make him be trained in exercising a right in order to get a privilege. Criminals fear armed potential victims much more than they fear policemen.

I am in favor of improving the education system. This means making sure it is under local control, not federal or state.

Organizations such as ACORN are a bad idea. They are always corrupt.

I already told you my opinion of how to handle the drug problem and the economy. If the free market was allowed to work, the economy would allow almost everyone to afford their own health care. For those that could not, there could be conditional assistance from the government that only is offered to those that meet strict standards.

The thing that was being done correctly in Derrion Albert's life was that he had been taught to take responsibility for himself and he was doing so.

Liberal POV said...

Guy, Sark and Oatz

Just a few weeks ago Obama went before the Students of America to speak about personal responsibility, staying in school and become the role model many of these young people so desperately need and your side went crazy.

We have the perfect role model for these young people in the white hose and you want to undermine and demonize him.

I repeat what's the conservative answer before these young people hit the criminal justice system?

How about more police walking the streets to prevent crime before it happens?

How about smaller class rooms?

How about jobs that pay a living wage?

Liberal POV said...

Guy

"Prison should be places of punishment. Hard labor, chain gangs, etc. are entirely acceptable. Our troops have a much rougher time in boot camp than criminals do in prisons. Prisons should be something criminals fear."

While this logic is very popular its fails to work. We just get excons more sadistic than when they went to prison.

Look to Canada, Why the difference?

" If you really want to reduce crime what do you think about making it mandatory that everyone be required to qualify with a gun before he can get a drivers license or ride public transportation? "

Bad idea: Do you really want even more angry, uneducated, drunk or druged teenagers armed?

I don't want to be on that train or bus.

We don'tneed to return to hollywood's wild west.

guy fauleks said...

POV, In case our post did not cross, I just answered your questions.

Gregg said...

How 'bout saying that 70% of black mothers being single is unacceptable? How bout saying that a disproportionate number of black men are worthless fathers? How about telling the truth about racism towards whites by blacks? How about holding up role models like Clarence Thomas, Ward Connerly, Condi Rice, Michael Steele or J.C. Watts? How about a President that doesn't undermine a policeman doing his job? How about not telling blacks that they cannot succeed unless the standards are lowered? How about we scrutinize candidates relentlessly even if they are black? How 'bout don't vote based on race? How 'bout we don't listen to a racist President telling us how racist we are?

guy faulkes said...

Studies have proven conclusively that places that allow citizens to carry concealed handguns archive a huge reduction in crime. No one is saying high school children should be allowed to carry. However gun safety and proficiency with personal arms should be required courses in school.

Your wild est comment is typical of the liberal, anti-gun mind set. People can carry concealed in the vast majority of states and it has never happened. It is also interesting to know that the states that have the most people with concealed weapons have the lowest crime rates. I refer you to the Book More Guns, Less Crime for a scientific study.

How do you know punishment does not work? What are your sources? When we had severe punishment for criminal acts in this country, crime rates were much lower. If the excons are more sadistic when released, then the punishment is not severe enough. Teeth need to be added to the statement "If you can't do the time, don"t do the crime."

Sarkazein said...

Gregg- That is a good point. Obama told the public that police are bigots and act stupidly. He was wrong.
How does giving people an excuse for ant-social behavior help them?

Liberal POV said...

Gregg

Lets say you're correct with this statement.

"How 'bout saying that 70% of black mothers being single is unacceptable? How bout saying that a disproportionate number of black men are worthless fathers?"

What do we do to improve those numbers?

Your train wrecks with this statement.
"How about telling the truth about racism towards whites by blacks?"
I have found no evidence of this with my personal experience. Have you personally had this experience or did you get that opinion from right wing propaganda?

"How about holding up role models like Clarence Thomas, Ward Connerly, Condi Rice, Michael Steele or J.C. Watts? "

While I disagree with these people politically they are great role models as is Collin Powell and especially President Obama now a Nobel Peace Prize winner. President Obama has an opportunity to make a difference in the lives of millions of young African Americans. Lets hope he's successful and makes the numbers you mention improve.

Sarkazein said...

What the Liberal does not understand, is all Conservatives and Libertarians want a more civil society. Making a society less responsible for their actions is making society a far more dangerous place. The Great Society failed. Liberals are so stuck in their ways, they will not CHANGE back to what worked in the first place: self-reliance and family responsibility. As the ACLU "improved" prison life, the prison population grew, and prisons are being ruled by the prisoners in some cases. As people were given more of other people's money, poverty grew.
Look at the videos of the well dressed, cell-phone clad people standing in line for free money in Detroit. It is awful.

Liberal POV said...

Guy

Look to Canada, Why the difference?

Sarkazein said...

Povvy-
It is the "family-responsibility" thing causing the unmarried women to have babies out of wed-lock. Daddy won't take care of us, no problem, Uncle Sugar will. Result, more fatherless boys being raised by their working moms and grandmas. Can you not see the problem? Really?

Liberal POV said...

Sark

Sure I see the problem and I do agree it's a problem.
I also point to Obama as a role model for these kids.
I also point to conservatives wanting to force these young women to bare sometimes unwanted children by removing the choice of abortion.

How do we strengthen the family unit?
Conservatives want longer prison time making less chance of a marriage working.
How do you fix the problem?

I say programs like head start, much smaller class room sizes, lots more police walking the streets, after school programs, ACORN ( without corruption)( I do believe ACORN was overly demonized but had leadership problems), Jobs at a living wage, drug treatment programs, decriminalizing drugs and Universal health care will decrease gang participation.

Not give away programs but family support programs.

guy faulkes said...

There are many differences and similarities when one considers Canada and the United States. To which do you refer? One of the differences is our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Another is that Canada is socialist to a large degree.

As you dropped the gun issue, I assume you think I am correct on that matter.

Sarkazein said...

Pov-
Change can only be made from within the individual. It can not be made by government mandate. Personal resposibility., shame for anti-social behavior, not excuses for anti-social behavior. I have to disagree with you on Obama as a role model, because of his lack of using the bully pulpit to insist on personal responsibility. He is a good family man, but he uses the government like a heroin pusher uses free samples of heroin as he continues getting people hooked on government care. His Chicago homies are the clearest example. White, Black, or Latino,,,it is all the same result.

Liberal POV said...

Guy

"One of the differences is our Constitution and Bill of Rights."

The people of Canada are as free or freeer than the citizens of the US.

"Another is that Canada is socialist to a large degree."


I don't think this is true, but if it is its a stronge argument for socialism.

"As you dropped the gun issue, I assume you think I am correct on that matter."

I don't agree with you, but know you have a gun fetish and it would be a waste of time to go after your myths on guns.

Liberal POV said...

Sark

"Change can only be made from within the individual. It can not be made by government mandate."

I do agrre we have too many in our society that lack the skills necessary to be responsible citizens.

These people unfortunately become parents so I return to the same answer I have posted her over and over.

Programs like head start, smaller class room sizes, lots more police walking the streets, after school programs, Jobs at a living wage, drug treatment programs, decriminalizing drugs and Universal health care.

"It can not be made by government mandate." Prison is a form of a government mandate and you're right it seldom works.It can not be made by government mandate."

Sarkazein said...

POV- Do you think the organized Chicagoans hitting that unarmed kid over the head with a railroad tie had a respect for innocent life? Were they starving and in rags? Did the unarmed BLACK kid they killed have the same opportunities they did?
As long as your kind ignore the problem explained very well in Guy Faulkes' posted article, the worse it will get, and to me, that is considered heartless and cruel.

Liberal POV said...

Sark

This is a part of my response to Guy's post and it address your last comment.

My own belief is that gangs are a symptom of a failed society.

The author is correct with the following statement "The people who killed Derrion are monsters. Monsters come in all colors, but these happen to be black. They are not victims. They are cold-blooded criminals with no regard for human life. " This is also the description of a mob.


Yes, these people are monsters but our failed society today is producing these monsters.
This is what can happen in large concentration of hopelessness. Where over 10% of the men have criminal records. Remember my point of too many in our prison system.
Mobs are monsters that don't have to answer to morality, much of the conservative movement today is a mob. Look at issues like torture, wanting to refuse medical treatment to undocumented residents, supporting putting 2% of our population behind bars, leaving millions without health care.

We need to study what was being done right to produce more Derrion Alberts.

The Bush Admin cut the funding for neighborhood police walking a beat and getting to know locals that can reduce gangs.

Just across the border from Chicago and Detroit gangs, murder and other crimes is a fraction of that in the USA. Why?

Could it be a better social network? Better political system?

Sarkazein said...

POV- You are a true usefull idiot. It's Bush's fault.

Sarkazein said...

POV- The failed society is the Liberal welfare nanny state society. It is an undeniable fact.

Sarkazein said...

POV- 1,100 heavily armed police busted the Avenue Latino street gang in LA. How many policemen do you need? Your theory, the liberal theory, would require everyone with a criminal mind-set have a cop with them at all times. Utopian.

Sarkazein said...

POV or any Liberal-

How do you FEEL about Obama wanting to lock-up anyone NOT buying health insurance? Seriously, how does that sit with your "too many people in prison" mantra?

Liberal POV said...

Sark

Take a breath and do a reality check.

My post was about preventing young people from becoming criminals and preventing crime not becoming a police state.

Cuts in the social safety net drive us closer to South American style police states. Gangs come with that territory.

History reminder from Reagan forward republicans have been in charge and thing just keep getting worse.

Guy wanted proof the harsh prison sentences and harsh treatment didn't work. Look at the last 30 years. How is that working?

Link me a reliable source of prison for those not buying insurance. Where is the personal responsible of a person not having insurance if they could afford it? Those not making a living wage of course have to pay rent, gas and buy food before insurance.

Give it up for a sitting president of the United States winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

Sarkazein said...

POV- In Texas that is called a side step. You wrote the prisons are full of non-violent people. How non-violent do you have to be, to be a prisoner for not getting health insurance?

Liberal POV said...

Sark

As usual I don't think you have your facts. Where did you find any thing that suggest prison for failing to buy insurance?

Liberal POV said...

Sark

What's your suggestion for our society producing more Derrion Alberts?

Sarkazein said...

POV- So if it is true, you can be put in prison for not having heath insurance, would you then denounce Obama's support of Obama-care and throw yourself on the mercy of the Conservative Court, and agree to not vote in the next three federal elections?

guy faulkes said...

POV, I do not think you will ever realize there is no such thing as a dangerous weapon. There are only dangerous people. The piece of wood that was used to kill that boy did not jump up and commit the murder. The criminal swinging it committed the murder. Mankind is the dominant life form on this planet because he fights with hsi mind. We do not ave superior size, strength, or speed. We do not have natural weapons such as a predator's fangs and crushing jaw strength on its claws. We do have the ability to use tools and reason. Therefore we win.

Criminals use their reasoning ability to prey on the rest of us. A responsible person uses his reasoning ability to fight back. One way we do this is to use the most efficient means of self defense yet devised. This is a personal weapon such as a hand gun. As the old saying goes, God made men, Sam Colt made them equal.

Your comment about a gun fetish proves your ignorance and bias. Apparently you have some kind of problem with a small woman being able to defend herself against a large rapist if she uses a gun to do so. Your bias in that you refuse to acknowledge a person has a responsibility for his own safety and the safety of his friends and family is astounding.

Your thoughts on Canada are equally astounding. However, if you really feel that way, Canada does accept immigrants or I guess you could be an undocumented worker. :-)

I do not know what Sark's thoughts on our society producing more Derrion Alberts, but as I said before, all it takes is for young people to be taught that they are responsible for themselves and that they need to better themselves through their own efforts in a free market system.

Liberal POV said...

Guy

I own guns myself but I don't have a gun fetish. Buy that I mean guns are not like a religion for me, I'm not an NRA member, nor do I have a gun on me or in my car at all times . I don't keep them loaded.

Like you said earlier " We do have the ability to use tools and reason."

I like the ability to reason of that statement during my entire life experience I can't think of ant time a gun would have improved the situation.

How about you how many times have you used your gun to solve a problem or fired it at another human being?

Your obsession with guns exceeds reality that makes you a gun fetish.

Liberal POV said...

Guy

" all it takes is for young people to be taught that they are responsible for themselves"

How do we do that when often the parents don't understand this concept?


Programs like head start, smaller class room sizes, lots more police walking the streets, after school programs?

LiberalGreggPOV said...

"How do we do that when often the parents don't understand this concept?" - LiberalPOV

Simple, we just do what you suggest. We replace parents with government. Duh.

guy faulkes said...

How do we do that when often the parents don't understand this concept? - POV

We have been talking about the means to accomplish this. Stop the entitlement programs except for those that really need them and make prisons a place to be feared. Need for entitlement programs should be limited to those that cannot work because of strictly specified and enforced physical and mental limitations. Those found to be fraudulently using the system should be severely punished as they are stealing from the rest of us.

If people are forced to take care of themselves, they will do so and would soon gain a sense of responsibly.

guy faulkes said...

How about you how many times have you used your gun to solve a problem or fired it at another human being?
POV

Twice for defense of myself and my family. Once when aiding a friend. I have never had to shoot the gun at anybody as the sight of it ended the altercation. No one was injured because I had the gun. Without it, the stories would have been different.

In addition I have killed a rabid raccoon, a rabid cat, and three vicious dogs to keep them from biting me or harming my pets. These were all separate incidents. However, I did kill one of the dogs with my walking stick,so maybe you do not count that as self defense as you seem to be focused on guns rather than defending yourself.

As I said before, the gun is merely the most efficient means of self defense. I know from personal experience that many times one can prevent crimes without having to shoot it.

My fetish is my responsibility for my safety and that of my family and friends, not having a gun. You would do well to emulate it.

Sarkazein said...

So Povvy, what about the jail time for not "cooperating" with Obama care? I guess you found out it is true and have stuck your head back in to the hole on this one.

"What are you in for ?", asked a cellmate.
"Oh, you know, I refused to carry health insurance"
"How much time did you get?", asked the cellmate.
"One year and a $25,000 fine"

Sarkazein said...

Another Obama Leftist ally marches on to destroy Liberty.

Argentine Senate Approves Fernandez’s Media Bill

By Eliana Raszewski

Oct. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Argentina’s Senate approved a government-backed bill that puts new limits on television and radio ownership and will probably force Grupo Clarin SA, the country’s biggest media company, to sell off assets.

The Senate handed President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner a victory, passing 44-24 a law she said will “democratize” the airwaves. After a session lasting almost 20 hours, senators approved the 164 articles of the bill without change. The central provision of the law limits ownership of cable and broadcast operations in a single market. In pushing the bill, Fernandez said Clarin holds 73 percent of Argentina’s radio, television and cable licenses.

Critics of the bill, such as Senator Luis Petcoff Naidenoff of the Radical Civic Union party, said its aim was in fact to “silence voices” of dissent after Fernandez and her husband, former President Nestor Kirchner, began accusing Clarin of bias in covering their policies.///

Sarkazein said...

Isn't it amazing how the non-judgmental Left can call something a fetish if it is not exactly like their opinion.

POV, how many times have you had to use your death benefit in your life insurance policy?

Liberal POV said...

Sark

I must have missed the link to your source of information on jail time for not purchasing insurance.

Can you back it up with a reliable source.

Liberal POV said...

Sark

You also may have a gun fetish if guns are not like a religion to you.
Do you ever fondle you guns for no reason at other than it just feels good? Do you expose them every time friends come by?
I'm not an NRA member, nor do I have a gun on me or in my car at all times . I don't keep them loaded.

People that live in the country or have farms need guns as a tool to protect livestock and sometimes to put down an animal. That's reasonable use and not gun fetish behavior.

Liberal POV said...

Sark

Corrected from above:

You also may have a gun fetish if guns are like a religion to you.
Do you ever fondle you guns for no reason other than it feels good? Do you expose them every time friends come by?
I'm not an NRA member, nor do I have a gun on me or in my car at all times . I don't keep them loaded.

People that live in the country or have farms need guns as a tool to protect livestock and sometimes to put down an animal. That's reasonable ownership and use not gun fetish behavior.

Gregg said...

Lazybones, uncurious and illinformed LiberalPOV,

Sark asked you a question and you're dodging. Do you keep up with the debate at all? It's like me asking you to provide a link to back your claim that Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. I've been eagerly anticipating your answer since 10/9 6:33PM so I'll do it for you...again.

Regarding the Baucus plan, Sen. John Ensign (R-NV) asked Thomas Barthold, chief of staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, what would happen if a taxpayer refused to buy health insurance and then refused to pay the subsequent fine. Here's the reply.

You still won't answer.

Sarkazein said...

POV-

Rather than answering my question, you display your incredible lack of knowledge about the subject you debate. Gregg has made it easy for you, you only have to click the word "Here's".

How else do you suppose the government can enforce it's mandates without the threat of fine and imprisonment. Imprisonment always goes with the non-payment of fines and is offered as both.
You rail about too many non-violent prisoners, and support imprisoning people refusing to get health insurance. Liberalism is truly a mental disorder.

Gregg said...

Sark,

I would add that enforcement ultimately comes at the point of a gun.

Sarkazein said...

"I'm not an NRA member, nor do I have a gun on me or in my car at all times . I don't keep them loaded."-POV

As is your CHOICE. Anti-gun laws make it not your choice. But don't worry, the CHOICE to kill your pre-born is safe.

Liberal POV said...

Gregg

We all have to pay taxes and if this is tax evasion then yes I guess you could be sent to prison for tax evasion.

The question is why you would not pay for insurance for your self and your family?

I don't like my tax dollars going for the war in Iraq or to pay Blackwater but I don't get a line item veto.

Sarkazein said...

Lame

Gregg said...

Sark's right, lame.

BTW I can point to the Constitution for the authorization, indeed requirement, to at times fight wars. I don't think it says anything about health care.

guy faulkes said...

POV, I did a little research on those that share my "fetish", as you call it. From January to May 2009 there were 6.2 million background checks for firearms approved. This averages to 1,240,000 approved checks per month. There are usually seven billion rounds of ammunition sold to the public per year. Last year over nine billion rounds were sold. It would have been a larger amount, but supply could not keep up with demand. Sales for Glock pistols are up 71% for the first quarter of the fiscal year with sales increasing.

We have finally found something for which Obama can be credited. Increased sales of guns and ammunition.

matt said...

Guy,
That has probably done more to stimulate the economy than the bailouts...I am assuming most of those are American companies as well. Compared to things like the cash for clunkers where 60% of that went for Toyota and other foreign companies. Not that they don't provide many jobs here in America as well...but still thought that statistic was interesting.

Liberal POV said...

Guy

You make my point gun fetish desires and fear and anger addition must be satisfied with a new hit kind of like porn or drug addition.

Drugs and porn are also doing well.

Reader said...

"The question is why you would not pay for insurance for your self and your family?"

Exactly what I was thinking Lib. Now why not ask this question to other liberals? Tell them to it's time to let go of their cable, cell phones and things that are not a necessity. I've never been without insurance; my wants go first. Now it's time for church, so have a good day my friends.

Liberal POV said...

Reader

Those working below a living wage have to choose rent, food, gas for the car, cell phone ( for safety and work ) and there nothing left for insurance.

Why is it so hard for Republicans to get past the myth that the working poor with wages below a living wage should be able to pay all of their basic needs if they just manage their money correctly?

Do the math@ $8.00 per hour.

Most don't have steady hours or lose work with weather so the income here is over stated.

8x40= $320.00
FICA and SSI -29.12
State Sales tax -20.36
______________
Per week income $270.52
Per month $1,080.08
Spouse if one $1,080.08
Total income $2,160.16

Rent $700
Utilities $200
Gas for tranportation $200
Cell phone $ 50
Food $600
Clothing $150
Car repairs or PMT $250
Car insurance $100
Kids education $100
Heath Insurance $700
__________
Total expenses $3,050

Short fall -$889.84

What has to be cut from this budget?

Sarkazein said...

Reader-
Excellent point: "...this question to other liberals? Tell them to it's time to let go of their cable, cell phones and things that are not a necessity. I've never been without insurance; my wants go first."

Health care has become, thanks to the Left, something people think they are entitled to. Rather than pay for your own health-care, that money is to be used for some things people didn't even know about twenty years ago.
Including Cell phones, video games, grill work, tattoos, concert tickets, PCs, IPods, big screen TVs, 24'' wheels, crack, booze, sports clothing, and large gold chains.
This is where other-wise generous and charitable people draw the line.

guy faulkes said...

POV, I do not have any data on the increase in sales of porn or drugs. I guess you know more about those things than I do. Are they your fetish?

Sarkazein said...

Guy Faulkes-

I bought my first M-4 after the stores built back their inventories after the "The World's Greatest Gun Salesman" (Obama) emptied out the stores.
They have increased in price approximately 30% since the Election. Now, today, I read about M-4 failures on the battlefield. Mostly the failures were on full-automatic. Plinking at a junkyard or dump is the best shooting, but hard to come by these days. My 18 year old son had his first chance this week on a 200 acre ranch with old cars around placed there for plinking. Great fun.

Sarkazein said...

POV-

Write Obama's brother and find out how he does it on $12 a year.

Liberal POV said...

Sark and Reader

A Cell phone is a necessity in today's world landlines may not be. These folks must be able to get calls from the employer.

You conservatives that like voodoo math need to face and answer the real arithmetic.

How do the working poor get by?

Do the math@ $8.00 per hour.

Most don't have steady hours or lose work with weather so the income here is over stated.

8x40= $320.00
FICA and SSI -29.12
State Sales tax -20.36
______________
Per week income $270.52
Per month $1,080.08
Spouse if one $1,080.08
Total income $2,160.16

Rent $700
Utilities $200
Gas for tranportation $200
Cell phone $ 50
Food $600
Clothing $150
Car repairs or PMT $250
Car insurance $100
Kids education $100
Heath Insurance $700
__________
Total expenses $3,050

Short fall -$889.84

Remember this is above minimum wage and is assuming full employement an a full 40 hour work week.

What would the conservative mind cut from this budget?

Sarkazein said...

POV-

Write Obama's favorite Auntie and see how much she lives on in government housing.

Sarkazein said...

Pov- How much did Obama's Chicago homies pay for the RR ties used to beat that innocent 16 year old to death. Was that part of their budget? Were they out looking for a job or food? No, because they knew Uncle Sugar would feed and house them.

Gregg said...

Lib,

Why on earth would anyone try to support a family on minimum wage? Any one that has not made themselves worth more than minimum wage by the age of 20 (generous, I wouldn't work for minimum wage after 16) is either lazy, a fool or has no pride. The most cruel and unproductive thing that could be done for these lazy prideless fools is to force employers to pay them more than they're worth.

Gregg said...

Lib,

I don't know what the minimum wage is. Is it really $8? When was it raised? If it was raised to $8 then I posit that is a major reason for the record youth unemployment levels. Or is that Bushes fault too?

Liberal POV said...

Gregg

$8.00 is not minimum wage it's the wage many working poor must try to support a family on.

You do a budget that works increase the wage a few dollars, move the rent, but make something work.
Sark can't so he gone after Obama's brother rather than face the reality the working poor can't afford health insurance unless its part of our social safety net.

The working poor subsidize the corporate royalty.

Liberal POV said...

Gregg

$8.00 is not minimum wage it's the wage many working poor must try to support a family on.

You do a budget that works increase the wage a few dollars, move the rent, but make something work.
Sark can't so he gone after Obama's brother rather than face the reality the working poor can't afford health insurance unless its part of our social safety net.

The working poor subsidize the corporate royalty.

Gregg said...

Lib,

"Poor" is a choice for the vast majority of able bodied people. You choose your income. No one can take that choice from you. You must give it away.

Sarkazein said...

POV-

Grab a working poor family and move them in to your house. That will save them the rent and food. If all you liberals that voted for Obama do the same thing, him too, you solve the problem.
If all the sudden they won't get up off your couch, not to worry, you'll take care of them.
Problem solved.
Let those liberal Hollyweird stars share their 15,000 SF houses with the poor working people, let Michelle change full-time make-up artists every week and spread the wealth...or better yet let her trowel on her own and use that money for the poor.

Gregg said...

If you choose to be poor then there is unemployment compensation (extended over and over), welfare, food stamps, artificially inflated wages and no shame. Not much down side. If you sacrifice to become wealthy then you will have a higher percentage of your income confiscated and you will be vilified by those that have sacrificed nothing. It's no wonder we have so many lazy, prideless fools.

guy faulkes said...

POV;

Sark, Reader, and Gregg have sent you to school. The question is, were you able to learn or are you still suffering from information retention disorder?

Liberal POV said...

Gregg, Sark , Guy

Do some math, how can these WORKING families make it and afford insurance?

They have been subsidizing the American economy and the Coroporate Royality.

Show me a budget these families can make ends meet.

BikerBard said...

Latest Quinnipiac University poll:

Voters disapprove 64 - 25 percent of the way Republicans in Congress are doing their jobs

Keep on keepin' on! And Faux DOES love polls!

Gregg said...

Guy,

I guess that answers your question.

Gregg said...

Just for fun Lib,

If I made the horrible choice to start a family without enough marketable skills to earn more than minimum wage the first thing I would do is make a plan to make more money. It may be a 1,2 or 5 or 10 year plan but there would be a set goal and a road to it. From your list I'd nix the cell phone. I'd cut the clothing budget if I had to go to good will to do so. I sure wouldn't have a car payment if I did I'd sell the car and buy a clunker...or a bike. I'd move into a trailer park if I had to to lower rent. I might move in temporarily with friends or family. I could also negotiate with my landlord to work off some of the rent. All the while I would be looking to buy something ($700 will pay a mortgage). I can feed a family for cheaper than $600/month. I'd also grow a garden and teach the kids to hunt and fish. I'd get a second job. I would develop some skills whether through school or on my own. I'd network using the internet (library), mailings, friends and friends of friends. I'd work harder at the job I did have to make myself indispensable...then I'd ask for a raise...if I deserved it.

I would make sure to instill in my kids a work ethic. There would be no television but lots of love. My kids would not rely on government but they would know that, no matter what, their parents would be there for them. I'd take extra care to make them realize that resentment towards those that have more is a useless waste of time. I would reiterate to them that I was responsible, through my choices, for our position in life but they did not have to make the choices I did. They would also see me making better choices.

I'd look up when I was down.

Sarkazein said...

I wonder how many of the working poor were swindled into trading their paid-off clunker for a 70 month high interest car payment and insurance, thanks to Obama.
I wonder how many poor people are paying more for a clunker and used parts now that the supply is lower.
The government moves and the poor get screwed.
Why do you think the "Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" holds true?

Nobody said...

Lib,
Who are these "working poor" you speak of? High school dropouts? The kids we all saw in school who were more interested in cutting class and getting high than doing well? The ones who barely graduated? Who are the rich? Most likely the ones who worked hard and made right decisions. Your philosophy rewards bad choices by romanticizing the poor. I spend a lot of time around the "working poor," I come from that background, and I can say from experience, it's about choices. A cell phone is a necessity?!? Ha! You sound like quite a few teenagers I know, when they stop texting long enough to speak. A friend of mine is a teacher and he said the problem of cell phones in school is rampant -- kids trying to text in class rather than work, asking to go to the restroom or locker only to text. These will be the working poor in the future, and you'll be there to tell them, "It's not your fault! Somewhere, there's some rich guy and THAT'S the real reason you're poor." Let me ask you this... there are 300 million people in the country. 12-15% (4,500,000 @ 15%)live in poverty. We spend $600 billion on poverty assistance programs every year. That is roughly $130,000 spent per person in poverty every year. How much is enough?

Liberal POV said...

Gregg

You couldn't make it work could you?

You might get a mobile home up here for $500.00 in in a crime infested park.
$200.00 a month has to keep the car running of in some case both cars as both spouses have to get to work. Set of tire $400.00, New battery $100.00, major repair $900.00, brakes $300.00, muffler and pipes $400.00 oil changes. $2400 won't go very for to maintain older cars.

Cell phone are a necessity for the working poor landline may not be.

Even goodwill clothing cost some money. Kids out grow clothes fast. Got shoes, coats, gloves, long johns. $1800 per year is not much for a family for clothing.

"I can feed a family for cheaper than $600/month."

Break that down for me?

Don't forget laundry detergent, toilet paper, tampons, Paper towels, soap, shampoo.

" I'd also grow a garden and teach the kids to hunt and fish. I'd get a second job."

You won't have the time or land to grow a garden remember you going to be going to school and working a second job while being that perfect parent.

Conservative myths don't work when you get beyond propaganda to reality.

The lies you believe!

Do the math and welcome to reality.

Don't forget single parents?

Sarkazein said...

POV, you could find a way to fail no matter what the situation. But let me tell you, with the debt, 4X deficit spending, there won't be any money left to "help" anybody. Take a look at the last US debt auction.

Liberal POV said...

Sark

The problem the Republicans want to take no responsibility for wrecking the train not only that Refuse to help repair the train they wrecked and most don't want to see Obama get the train back on track.

You and others want to just stand in the way heckling, history will not be kind to you or the know nothing.

Now see if you can prove my math wrong for the working poor. Lets see the Sark budget for a family of four working above minimum wage but below a living wage?

guy faulkes said...

8x40= $320.00
FICA and SSI -29.12
State Sales tax -20.36
______________
Per week income $270.52
Per month $1,080.08
Spouse if one $1,080.08
Total income $2,160.16

Rent $700
Utilities $200
Gas for tranportation $200
Cell phone $ 50
Food $600
Clothing $150
Car repairs or PMT $250
Car insurance $100
Kids education $100
Heath Insurance $700
__________
Total expenses $3,050

Short fall -$889.84


Change in lifestyle.

rent cheaper place for $500.00 save $200.00
do away with cell phone save $50.00
Lower food cost to $400.00 Save $200.00
car pool Save $100.00
Get better job that pays $12.00 per hour because illegal aliens have been deported and they are not stealing jobs.
Use extra money for job training for better job.
Invest money from new job so your money is making money.
Continue to invest until you are wealthy.

Sarkazein said...

POV-

I pay some of the house staff minimum wage, and they seem to do just fine.

Sarkazein said...

POV is right for once. He wants everybody to practice budgeting low income, as we will ALL be underpaid and underworked soon. The economy will not survive Obamaism.

Liberal POV said...

Guy

The short fall is $889.84 minus you're saving $550.00 still
leave a short fall of $389,84.

Why do you believe these working poor don't need a cell phone?

Suppose the teacher needs to contact them? What about a family emergencies?

Have you tried to find a pay phone lately?

What if not having a phone cost them their job?

Most of these folks don't get vacation or sick days.

The reality is these people need Universal health care and a living wage or at least a social safety net.

Yes, let those making over 20 times more their income pay more taxes.

Some of the Corporate royalty make more per hour than the working poor make in a year.

Liberal POV said...

Sark

You can't engage beyond know nothing nonsence can you?

Can you do a budget that works?

I know the answer is no.

Right wing propaganda can't stand the test of reality.

Gregg said...

Often in the summer I'll bring home a few trout, or bass then grab a grocery bag of fresh veggies from the garden and eat free. We had a pint of ice cream for dessert with one of our free meals that the grocery store actually paid us 79 cents to take. This was done on triple coupon day. My wife is a coupon freak. That along with shopping at Bottom Dollar Foods, watching sales and reduced bins saves tons of money. She found some 16 oz. bottles of "Suave" shampoo for 50 cents. She bought 20. The local butcher has some great deals.

All of that is really beside the point. Lib is trying to say that you can't afford insurance if you earn $8/hr. I say yes you can and if you don't like it then do what you have to do to earn more. Simple.

Sarkazein said...

POVerty-

Seriously, Obama has broke the bank. Keep practicing your low income budget. He said 95% of Americans would not have their taxes raised, he said the unemployment would not go above 8.5%, he said Afghanistan was the most important war to win.
Do you suppose he held up the troop request until he knew the Nobel Prize was in the bag? Do you think he spends most of his time writing his third auto-biography? Do you suppose one of his Czars is a sculptor?

Gregg said...

"Do you suppose one of his Czars is a sculptor?" -Sark

That's funny, I don't care who you are!

Sarkazein said...

Thanks Gregg

oatz said...

Liberal POV you better rework that budget.....

The AP reported:

The health insurance industry has been working until recently to help draft legislation, while publicly endorsing President Barack Obama's goal of affordable coverage for all Americans. The alliance has grown strained as legislation advances toward votes in Congress.

Late Sunday, the industry trade group America's Health Insurance Plans sent its member companies a new accounting firm study that projects the legislation would add $1,700 a year to the cost of family coverage in 2013, when most of the major provisions in the bill would be in effect.

Premiums for a single person would go up by $600 more than would be the case without the legislation, the PricewaterhouseCoopers analysis concluded in the study commissioned by the insurance group.

"Several major provisions in the current legislative proposal will cause health care costs to increase far faster and higher than they would under the current system," Karen Ignagni, the top industry lobbyist in Washington, wrote in a memo to insurance company CEOs.

The study projected that in 2019, family premiums could be $4,000 higher and individual premiums could be $1,500 higher.

Of course, the fact that a government run health care program would cost more than a privately run system surprises no one.

Liberal POV said...

Gregg, Sark, Oatz and Guy

We stiill have at least a $ 389.84 short fall using Guy's numbers.

The only way to turn this around is invest more into our society.

Universal health care for eÚvery one, go to a Canadian style model, more and better childhood education, more police WALKING neighborhoods and getting to know the kids and parents, more cheaper mass transportation ( This would create millions of local jobs as did building the railroads or interstate hwy system), more job training, more support for al forms of education, drug treatment programs, fewer citizens behind bars, living wage.

Gregg said...

Or choose to make more money.

guy faulkes said...

POV,as Gregg indicated, it is interesting that you chose to ignore the part of your hypothetical budget in which I demonstrated how you poor person could become a millionaire by not playing the liberal ""stuck in poverty and vote for bread and circuses game.

How are you doing with your drugs and porn fetish?

Sarkazein said...

" getting to know the kids and parents, more cheaper mass transportation..."-POV


I think the correct term is cheaperer.

Sarkazein said...

POV and other Commies have given up on the individual. Punish the masses for the few.

Sarkazein said...

"Debating leftists is like debating Charles Manson. It’s crazy talk. When you debate a leftist you never get to debate the policy. You debate their intended outcomes and their perception of who you are. That’s a serious lapse in logical and critical thought.
World peace? An end to poverty? Proper medical care for all? Equal opportunity for all men and women? I agree. Great. Fine. We all want that. Appeasement? Wealth redistribution? Government controlled economy? Pre-occupation with race and gender? Whoa. Wait a second, how does that work? How do those policies equal those results? When has that ever worked?"- Leigh Scott

Gregg said...

Sark,

The article you quoted from was right on the mark. Honest debate has long been my cause. I figured I'd post the entire piece.

Liberal POV said...

Guy, Gregg, Sark


Those that benefit most from a free market capitalist society should expect to support the entire society in proportions to their success.

Why would you expect those that not only fail to benefit from capitalism but often the source of revenue for predatory capitalism ( high interest loan, pay check loans, tobacco ) to have to pay an equal percentage in taxes?

You folks want all the benefits of capitalism but none of the responsible.

The wars that protect US business interest and resources benefit those with wealth most.

We always have money for war but not to invest in our society and it shows in crime rates, education and infrastructure.

Gregg said...

Gee Wiz Lib,

"Those that benefit most from a free market capitalist society should expect to support the entire society in proportions to their success."

First of all, they do big time.

Secondly, those that benefit most are the ones that work hardest and risk more. Capitalism is accessible to all.

Sarkazein said...

I think we have found POV's fetish... other people's money.

Sarkazein said...

Note the Socialist country of GB is having to sell off State owned assets due to hard times. Will they be selling it to other Socialist government agencies...no, they will have to rely on private wealth to save their bacon. Socialism does not work. State governments here are selling off assets to cover deficits, because government spent too much.

LONDON (AFP) – Prime Minister Gordon Brown announced on Monday a 16-billion-pound sale of state assets including a high-speed railway and a betting service to cut soaring debt caused by the economic crisis.

Liberal POV said...

Gregg

"First of all, they do big time.

Secondly, those that benefit most are the ones that work hardest and risk more. Capitalism is accessible to all."

If those benefiting most were paying their fair share we wouldn't have a deficit and all citizens would have health care, make a living wage and have full access education and knowledge. Wealth and power would be limited from one generation to another.
Most wealth is from a former generation no earned by those with wealth.

guy faulkes said...

POV, try as you might, you will never be able to overcome the fact that those that earn the most pay the most in taxes (unless they are part of the Obama administration which is comprised of tax evaders). The successful pay more than their fair share in order to maintain the enslaving entitlement programs of the liberals. These entitlement programs are designed to keep people in poverty and provide a voting block for the left. This is the cause of most of society's problems.

Liberal POV said...

Guy, Gregg, and other GOP

A social safety net ( Universal Health Care, Neighborhood police, Mass transportation, education, job training, drug rehab, mental health programs) is an investment in the future of this country.
How do you turn this into something different?

Today's conservatives are like farmers that won't feed their livestock or fertilize their fields to save money and expect to be successful and complain because the crops and livestock don't yield.

guy faulkes said...

How do you turn this into something different? - POV

We do not. We just don't use your liberal policies and agendas to achieve these results.

Liberal POV said...

Guy

"We do not. We just don't use your liberal policies and agendas to achieve these results."

After Republican rule we have major disasters.

What results in our country are you referring to?

guy faulkes said...

What results in our country are you referring to?

A social safety net ( Universal Health Care, Neighborhood police, Mass transportation, education, job training, drug rehab, mental health programs) is an investment in the future of this country.

We can have health care for everyone without it being under government control for instance. You never closed you parenthesis so it is difficult to understand what subset you are trying to group together. Everything you mention can be achieved privately and thus more efficiently than with government involvement.

To what disasters are you referring? Granted the Republicans did cause many problems when they abandoned their conservative base and became proponents of big government.

Sarkazein said...

Point being, we have all those things on POV's beggar's list except his form of health-care.
POV's lack of satisfaction proves it is never enough. Compare the imPOVerished of the pre-Great Society and the imPOVerished of today. POV's theory works against human nature, this is why it can never be enough.

guy faulkes said...

Off the off topic topic:

Here is another quote about which I would like to hear POV's position.

BUCHANAN TO OBAMA
By Patrick J. Buchanan

Barack says we need to have a conversation about race in America. Fair enough. But this time, it has to be a two-way conversation. White America needs to be heard from, not just lectured to... This time, the Silent Majority needs to have its convictions, grievances and demands heard. And among them are these:

First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known. Wright ought to go down on his knees and thank God he is an American.

Second, no people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the ' 60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream. Governments, businesses and colleges have engaged in discrimination against white folks -- with affirmative action, contract set-asides and quotas -- to advance black applicants over white applicants. Churches, foundations, civic groups, schools and individuals all over America have donated their time and money to support soup kitchens, adult education, day care, retirement and nursing homes for blacks.

We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude???

Barack talks about new 'ladders of opportunity' for blacks. Let him go to Altoona and Johnstown and ask the white kids in Catholic schools how many were visited lately by Ivy League recruiters handing out scholarships for 'deserving' white kids.? Is white America really responsible for the fact that the crime and incarceration rates for African-Americans are seven times those of white America ? Is it really white America 's fault that illegitimacy in the African-American community has hit 70 percent and the black dropout rate from high schools in some cities has reached 50 percent?

Is that the fault of white America or, first and foremost, a failure of the black community itself?

As for racism, its ugliest manifestation is in interracial crime, and especially interracial crimes of violence. Is Barack Obama aware that while white criminals choose black victims 3 percent of the time, black criminals choose white victims 45 percent of the time?

Is Barack aware that black-on-white rapes are 100 times more common than the reverse, that black-on-white robberies were 139 times as common in the first three years of this decade as the reverse?

We have all heard ad nauseam from the Rev. Al about Tawana Brawley, the Duke rape case and Jena . And all turned out to be hoaxes. But about the epidemic of black assaults on whites that are real, we hear nothing.

Sorry, Barack, some of us have heard it all before, about 40 years and 40 trillion tax dollars ago.

We are a Christian Nation even if Mr. Obama says we are not.

Gregg said...

Thanks Guy, some of those numbers are new to me. I've said it before, I'll say it again, Obama's election is the worst thing that's happened to blacks since slavery. Those staggering numbers will rise.

Reader said...

Lib, something to ponder.

http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/current/in_our_opinion/The-Numbers-Are-In-Again-The-Rich-Pay-More-Than-Their-Fair-Share.htm

Gregg said...

Excellent Reader! Of course we already knew about the mindless talking point lie. The "Fair Share" bilge is nothing more than a way of fomenting resentment towards the rich. The "rich" are defined as anyone who makes more money than you. The sad thing is how many people swallow the lie hook, line and sinker. BTW Lib won't respond because there is no response.

Reader said...

Gregg I just happened upon this article. You know, most people don't realize that an employer has to pay SS/medicare on employees out of their pocket. I don't understand why some liberals think we don't contribute to this society and we are out just for ourselves. I don't like matching the SS benefit for employees, but I'm required to do so to stay in business. I think if more people realized this, they wouldn't be so quick to demonize the people they call wealthly. If Lib wants to harp on the insurance companies, that's one thing. To harp on all wealthy people, I consider it jealously.

I have stated numerous times on this blog that I contribute to the less fortunate. Not always in monetary ways, but by mentoring them. We have to turn to one another, not to government.

Sarkazein said...

Reader-

Not only do you have to pay the SS, but if you screw up, you can go to jail. You get paid nothing for complying with that government mandate and you still get only one vote while the free-loader believing in the Marxist theory gets an equal vote.

Sarkazein said...

Guy Faulkes-

Pat Buchanan has been marginalized for years for speaking the truth.

Reader said...

Sark, we collect sales tax too. If there's a mistake, it's our fault, but of course we are not paid for our services when collecting it. People don't understand when they don't own their own business.

We've decided we might take the penalty if this health care passes.

Sarkazein said...

Reader-

I was threatened with arrest by a District Attorney for mailing an employee's child support to the wrong address (one of three different addresses in the 12 page Court Order). The IRS attached one of my employees pay. They said I could only pay him $75 a week and the rest to be sent to the IRS. I told the IRS Agent that I was sending $80 a week of his pay already to the County Child Support. The IRS said NO, it all goes to us. They over-ride Child Support. For all of this governmental tax and fine collection, I get nothing but threats and headaches.
Now the employer is going to be forced to supply health-care or go to jail. Next we will be responsible for their caloric intake...food is a necessity.

guy faulkes said...

I cannot remember the details, but a Sheriff took the Federal Government to the Supreme Court over the Feds making him do some type of gun control check without paying his department for their time and expenses. The Court ruled the Feds had to pay for things they decree or that they cannot have unfunded mandates. I have always wondered why this ruling did not apply to the IRS. We have to be bookkeepers and tax collectors for the government without compensation.

Reader said...

You know the answer guys. Liberals haven't a clue about economics or how a business runs. The don't know how to make money, only spend it. They not only spend theirs, when they run out, they want to add another tax to get mine and yours. They call us greedy, because we work hard and give our money freely to whom we choose. We just don't hand it over to them. We choose people that would die before they'd ask for any kind of help. You have to do it in ways of paying an electric bill, or put money in their checking account etc, and do it anonymous of course. I also try to thank the ones who are less fortunate than me, especially the ones who pick up my garbage. That often doesn't cross a liberal's mind.


Blogger is going to kick me off of this blog.

Okay, here's a question concerning politics...what the crap is the value added tax, they are throwing around in Washington?

Sarkazein said...

Listening to the local news readers this morning reading about the seasonal flu and the pig flu shot shortage, reminds me of a few years back when there was a flu shot shortage. Funny thing then, President Bush's name was mentioned repeatedly as the man- in-charge of flu shot distribution. NOW, the current Flu-Shot-In-Chief, is never mentioned in the shortage stories.

Sarkazein said...

The CA Governor's wife busted for talking on the cell phone while driving. How much did she speak for the no-phone law in CA? This shows how the ruling government class wants to run every bit of our lives, but think they are better than the un-washed peasants when it comes to their own capabilities. One of the pictures of Princes Shriver/Kennedy shows her driving a giant SUV while on the cell-phone. How much you wana bet she attends the "Save the Planet" luncheons and teas in the Behemoth.
This is why the government micro-managing my life will not work.

Sarkazein said...

POV-

Maybe you will take this guy's word for it:

"Nobody, no individual nor country, can indefinitely spend more than she or he earns. Two plus two always adds up to four, never five," he said. "Within the conditions of our imperfect socialism, due to our own shortcomings, two plus two often adds up to three."-Raul Castro

Gregg said...

Reader,

I came across this informative explanation of the VAT.

Reader said...

Thank you Gregg. That explains it.

guy faulkes said...

I am in favor of doing away with income tax and going solely to the VAT system. In my opinion, this is the most fair way to obtain revenue. It functions as a flat tax that is keyed to the purchase of goods. Everyone has to pay. No one can hide. As the rich buy more, they pay more. If the tax gets out of hand, the citiznes would more likely to protest government spending that is supported by VAT than they would under the present system.

The video was very informative, but the rises in European tax percentages were not caused by the method of collection, It was caused by government spending.

The video is correct in that having both an income tax and VAT is a ludicrous proposition that would only make it more difficult to control big government.

The more a tax collection system is directly observable to the public, the more likely the public would be to demand value for their tax dollars.

Reader said...

I'd be angry about having both.

guy faulkes said...

This one is a little different... Two Different Versions.... ... Two Different Morals

OLD VERSION

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away..

Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed.

The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.
MORAL OF THE STORY: Be responsible for yourself!

MODERN VERSION

The ant works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving.

CBS, NBC , PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.

America is stunned by the sharp contrast.

How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing, 'It's Not Easy Being Green.'

ACORN stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing, We shall overcome. Then Rev. Jeremiah Wright has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper’s sake.

President Obama condemns the ant and blames President Bush, President Reagan, Christopher Columbus, and the Pope for the grasshopper' s plight.

Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid exclaim in an interview with Larry King that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the Government Green Czar and given to the grasshopper.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper and his free-loading friends finishing up the last bits of the ants food while the government house he is in, which, as you recall, just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around them because the grasshopper doesn't maintain it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow, never to be seen again.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident, and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the ramshackle, once prosperous and once peaceful, neighborhood.

The entire Nation collapses bringing the rest of the free world with it.

MORAL OF THE STORY: Be careful how you vote in 2010.



I'll keep my faith, freedom, gun and money!
You can keep the 'CHANGE'!

From an email I received.

Liberal POV said...

Guy

Did that crap get made up at the Heritage fondation propaganda factory?

guy faulkes said...

No, POV, It came from a citizens acute and accurate observation of reality.

Where have you been? You have not commented on many interesting comments. You have been missed. We need the comic relief.

Gregg said...

"BTW Lib won't respond because there is no response." -Myself October 13, 2009 8:38 AM

Sarkazein said...

Way to go Obama and Ayers.

About one in eight girls at Robeson High School are pregnant. Officials say a variety of factors are to blame.
CBS


It is a Chicago public school full of energy and spirit. It has about 800 girls, and 115 of them have something in common – something you might find disturbing.

CBS 2's Kristyn Hartman reports.

All those young ladies are moms or moms-to-be at Paul Robeson High School. It's not a school for young mothers, it's a neighborhood school. And all of the pregnancies have happened, despite prevention talk.

If you want to know why, the people closest to the situation say there's no simple explanation.

Chicago Public Schools says it does not track the overall number of teen moms in the district. But Robeson Principal Gerald Morrow knows the count at his school in Englewood: 115 young ladies who are expecting. ///

Reader said...

Sark, they should have been in headstart and this wouldn't have happened.

Sarkazein said...

9 Comments 0 Recommend
3 Mexican men sent to prison for running smuggling stash house
By MARY FLOOD HOUSTON CHRONICLE
Three Mexican brothers were sentenced to more than three years in federal prison today for keeping 17 smuggled illegal immigrants — held shoeless and in only underwear, sometimes at gunpoint — in a Houston stash house waiting for family to pay cash to free them.
Court records show that at the house in the 14000 block of Hillsboro, some men being held were given very little food and some women eventually agreed to have sex with their guards in return for showers, food, clothes or being able to sleep on a bed rather than the floor.
Sean McElroy, the assistant special agent in charge of investigations for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Houston, said they break up dozens of stash houses like this here each year.
“Usually they take their clothes and give them very little food and water to keep them weak,” McElroy said of the way the smugglers or guards handle the smuggled immigrants. He said showing a few guns usually makes the captives very timid.///

Sarkazein said...

Bail-Out According to Maxine

"BAIL EM OUT! ????
Hell, back in 1990, the Government seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it. They failed and it closed. Now we are trusting the economy of our country and our banking system to the same nit-wits who couldn't make money running a whore house and selling whiskey!"

Sarkazein said...

http://www.lvrj.com/news/oath-keepers-pledges-to-prevent-dictatorship-in-united-states-64690232.html

Sarkazein said...

By LIZ SIDOTI and BOB LEWIS, Associated Press
PURCELLVILLE, Va. – Just a year after this one-time Confederate state helped elect a black man president, Democrats are desperately trying to hang onto the governorship.
A lot has changed: Loyal Democrats are more subdued than last fall. Republicans are energized. Independents are proving to be ... independent. Voters of all kinds seem disenchanted.
Just like Americans nationwide.
The contest between Republican Bob McDonnell and Democrat R. Creigh Deeds provides a snapshot of sorts — 12 months after America elected Barack Obama as president and expanded Democratic majorities in Congress, and one year before midterm elections in every state.
And the picture, in Virginia as in the nation, is not pretty for Democrats.
Republicans are far more fired up than Democrats, and independents who leaned left just a year ago are tilting away. Frustration over the status quo, fear of the country's direction, and disillusionment about political leaders span the ideological spectrum...///


Don't peak too soon!

Liberal POV said...

GOP and Sark

"BAIL EM OUT! ????
Hell, back in 1990, the Government seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it."

This is another example of what you think you know just ain't so.


http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/government/a/mustang_ranch.htm

Sarkazein said...

POV-

So, while it's accurate enough to say that the federal government "owned" Mustang Ranch for approximately three months in 1990, the claim that government officials tried to run the brothel and failed appears to be unfounded.///


Same outcome...the government was incapable.

Sarkazein said...

Inconvenient Truths Surface in ‘Not Evil Just Wrong’
by Darin Miller
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” Former vice president Al Gore uses this Upton Sinclair quote in his 2006 Oscar-winning documentary, “An Inconvenient Truth,” when describing politicians and businessmen who oppose his belief that the world is in trouble—big trouble—due to the increasing threat of global warming. But a just-released film is reversing the role.

Irish directors Phelim McAleer and Ann McElhinney have brought Gore’s controversial picture back under critical focus in their new documentary, “Not Evil Just Wrong,” which addresses the science and language of Al Gore and other environmentalists who see global warming as a major problem. Nearly 10,000 people in 22 countries simultaneously watched the film as it was streamed online via USTREAM (28,000 tuned in at different times), as well as almost 8,000 screenings across the U.S., all of which started at 8 p.m. EST. yesterday, October 18.
This isn’t the first time “An Inconvenient Truth” has been critically studied. When the British government planned to send the DVD to 3,500 secondary schools in 2007, volunteer school governor Stewart Dimmock challenged the decision, believing it is inaccurate and biased. Just over two years ago (Oct. 11), British High Court Judge Michael Burton found nine significant errors in the film, and ruled that it could be shown in schools only if accompanied by guidance to counter its one-sided views. Without this guidance, showing the film would have been breaking the law. While Gore himself claimed he won the case, Judge Burton disagreed, saying, “I conclude that the claimant substantially won this case by virtue of my finding that, but for the new guidance note, the film would have been distributed in breach of … the 1996 Education Act.”///

Liberal POV said...

GOP

I watched a great movie last night called " Lions to Lambs" about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the NEOCONs ( lambs) sending the brave young men and women ( lions ) into overwhelming circumstances without clear objectives and failed journalism.

Think about the chicken hawks ( Rush, Karl Rove, Cheney, Rumsfelt, O'Reilly, Patty McHenry) efferts to send men and women to these wars and circumstances.

Gregg said...

Lib,

Since you ignored the irrefutable facts from Reader that the rich don't pay their fair share you should never again use that phrase or you will look stupid(er).

Since you ignored the irrefutable facts from Guy Faulkes that blacks are a bigger problem for blacks than whites are, you should never again play your hideous race card.

As to you more recent comments, nobody cares what you think. You've lost any and all credibility.

Sarkazein said...

POV-

Since Obama never served in the military, and only didn't because he said there was no shootin' war going on at the time, I guess to you, his only option is to surrender in Iraq and Afghanistan.
No wonder he is ignoring the General's request for more troops. By POV's law Obama is not the Commander-In-Chief because he never served.
Such idiocy prevails in the liberal mind.

Sarkazein said...

POV-

When Obama tapped those Navy Seals on the shoulder and told them to FIRE at the Muslim youth, in your world he was a chicken hawk as he has never served.

Sarkazein said...

This is POV's first derogatory expressions about the Obama...his savior is a "chicken hawk".

Sarkazein said...

What about the Obama's hawkish words about Pakistan and Afghanistan during the election?
Did you write him and tell him to cut the chicken hawkedness and remind him he had never served and was not even allowed to comment on such matters?

guy faulkes said...

Sark, I have heard of "Not Evil, Just Wrong". Do you know how to find out whee it is being shown or when it will be available on DVD? It is supposed contain good scientific proofs. I notice that POV had nothing to say about this topic, but jumped to the issue of military conflict.

He ascertains that we should not go to war without clear objectives. This is interesting as Mr. Obama said that the war in Afghanistan was the war that it was imperative that we win. Of course this was at a time he was campaigning and needed to look strong on national defense in order to be elected. At the time his contention was that Iraq was not necessary but Afghanistan was vital in order to achieve our security. Now political expediency makes him nervous about staying the course with his previous stance. He does not want any issue such as national security to get in the way of his goal to promote his socialist agenda. POV has invertibley made his point. A clear and concise objective is necessary to win the war in Afghanistan. This brings attention to the fact Obama does not have a strategy to win the war and does not care to have one. Winning or national security is not his objective. Promoting socialism is.

His comment on failed journalism is so far out of context, I do not know what he is trying to say. I will admit that the administration's effort to insure that the tame lapdog media other than Fox News remains in line by trying to demonize Fox and cut it out of the loop comes to mind. However, I do not think POV is cognizant of the fact the only media outlet that will give you both sides of an issue is Fox.

I have thought about the people he requested us to examine. In general they reflect my opinions. Some do so more than others, of course. Notice I did not say I agree with them. They agree with me. This is the difference in mind set between conservatives and liberals. Liberals want to be led. Conservatives make up their own minds.

Sarkazein said...

Guy Faulkes-

Here is the link to the Gore's a liar article:


http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/dmiller/2009/10/19/inconvenient-truths-surface-in-not-evil-just-wrong/

guy faulkes said...

Thank you, Sark.

Reader said...

Here's Chuck Colson's opinion about the documentary.

http://www.breakpoint.org/commentaries/13099-not-evil-just-wrong

guy faulkes said...

Thank you, Reader. I am going to order a copy.

Liberal POV said...

GOP( Grumpy Old People)

" Liberals want to be led. Conservatives make up their own minds."

Why is so much money spent by billionaires on think tanks like The Heritage Foundation to form public opinion with propaganda and lies?

No matter the issue Tobacco, dirty coal, wasteful transportation, polluted water ways, acid rain, health care, wages, banking, chemicals, sugar, Pharmaceuticals, wall street, Defense contractors the conservative can count on funding to keep the status Que.

Those billions in propaganda had nothing to do with your misinformation?

Those that know and understand the truth and speak out are call liberals of leftist.

Why would these billionaire spend so much money if it wasn't working to keep you dumbed down.

Why is Ms Foxx afraid to face the general public?

She know she has sold out the average working family and will not have the answers to their question.