This blog,originally founded by Blogger, who is listed in Marquis Who's Who and is a recipient of the Albert Nelson Marquis Lifetime Achievement Award. He holds a theological degree and a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Taught Psychology for 32 years and is now Professor Emeritus. Is a board-certified psychologist and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in his profession. Ministered as a chaplain, and pastored Baptist and Episcopal churches. Publications cover the integration of psychology and theology. Served in the Army, the Merchant Marines and the Peace Corps.

Thursday, November 5, 2009

House Republicans Release Substitute Amendment for Health Care Reform

**UPDATE**
Pelosi's bill passes in the House 220-215
***
The cost is 61 billion compared to Pelosi's 1.2 trillion. It reduces the deficit by 68 billion. Here is the CBO's analysis and here is a good analysis of the analysis.

23 comments:

Sarkazein said...

How is this not a "Death Panel"?

By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, Associated Press Writer – Thu Nov 5, 6:15 am ET
WASHINGTON – You're afraid your cancer is back, and a health insurance company just turned you down. Under the health care bills in Congress, you could apply for coverage through a new high-risk pool that President Barack Obama promises would immediately start serving patients with pre-existing medical problems. Wait a second. Read the fine print. You may have to be uninsured for six months to qualify.
"If you are a cancer patient and have cancer now, you can't wait six months to go into a plan because your condition can go from bad to death," said Stephen Finan, a policy expert with the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network. He called the waiting period in the Senate bill "unacceptable."///


You only get help if you survive the next six months without care. If you're still alive , come see us and we will tell you if you are not too far gone to mess with.

Liberal POV said...

Sark


Is that an argument for universal health care for all? Taking the profit, bureaucracy and waste out of health care with a focuse on prevention like Canada, France and all other industrial and responsible nations? Health care would be like police or fire protection if you need it you get it.

Why do you know nothings support the Insurance industries that denies coverage, sometimes going back two years to find an excuse to deny medical care for illnesses?

Sicko is running on cable this month.

Anonymous said...

If one goes straight to the source, they'll find this paragraph on page 3 of last night's CBO analysis:

"By 2019, CBO and JCT estimate, the number of nonelderly people without health
insurance would be reduced by about 3 million relative to current law, leaving about
52 million nonelderly residents uninsured. The share of legal nonelderly residents
with insurance coverage in 2019 would be about 83 percent, roughly in line with the
current share."

Please tell me the point in enacting legislation that, even according to the CBO analysis turd that Republicans are trying to polish today, would do nothing to reduce the percentage of uncovered American citizens.

If anyone cares to read the analysis without spin, feel free to go to http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10705/hr3962amendmentBoehner.pdf

Anonymous said...

Not sure what's going on with the cut and paste capacity of this blog, but the link will work if you paste the rest of the line below immediately after the "d" in the initial link's "amend." Do not add a space in between.

mentBoehner.pdf

Honest Debate said...

Nonny,

I couldn't get it to work with your method or by clicking the link within the original link. I'll see what I can do. I just read the summary and would like to comment further after I've read the entirety of the report. Stay tuned, it may be tonight before I get there.

Sarkazein said...

POV- No, it is explaining how you are getting hood-winked into thinking the government health-care is a panacea for all. It is not, it is a power grab only. One that will come with insurmountable bureaucracy.

Sarkazein said...

Anonymous-

The trick here is to click on the title of the original post (not on the comment page) and the full link will appear on that page under comments if it is cut off on the comment page.

Sarkazein said...

Unempoyment rate over 10%... time for another WH party. His plan is right on track. Like I have written before, Obama is an economic saboteur. It is time to have him arrested and tried for economic treason.
Everything he is "doing" goes against economic recovery.
Now more mandates on employers... he's a loon.

guy faulkes said...

Sark, you should not insult loons. A loon in the context you are using is a crazy person. Obama is not crazy. As you indicated, he is a very smart socialist that wants to ruin the economy of this country and kill the free market in order to promote his ideals. He does not care about the misery he causes if he can achieve his socialist agenda.

Sarkazein said...

How about "goon"?

Honest Debate said...

Nonny (if that's your real name),

I still can't get it to work. I get a message that say's the file is damaged and can't be repaired. I'm not sure if it's my computer or the file but I can't read it. I did find this analysis that echos your complaint.

You asked: "Please tell me the point in enacting legislation that, even according to the CBO analysis turd that Republicans are trying to polish today, would do nothing to reduce the percentage of uncovered American citizens."

Answer: to lower cost, cut waste, reduce bureaucracy and increase competition and availibility.

From the article I linked: "A plan House Republicans plan offered as an alternative reform measure would cost hundreds of millions less than one offered by Democrats, but also leave nearly 52 million Americans uninsured, government analysts say."

I quote this article to illustrate a couple of things and assume your disdain for "spin" goes both ways. Most obvious is the number "hundreds of millions less". Was that a typo? Isn't the difference between 61 billion and 1.2 trillion, hundreds of billions? That also would be spin. It's actually over a trillion dollars less.

Now to your quote: "By 2019, CBO and JCT estimate, the number of nonelderly people without health insurance would be reduced by about 3 million relative to current law, leaving about 52 million nonelderly residents uninsured. The share of legal nonelderly residents with insurance coverage in 2019 would be about 83 percent, roughly in line with the current share."

Why do you suppose the CBO report uses the word "residents" instead of "citizens"? The 52 million uninsured number doesn't make sense. It's higher than the 47 million number that has been the mantra. We know that of that tens of millions are illegal aliens. Even Obama acknowledged that in his speech (the Joe Wilson "you lie" speech) by citing 30 million uninsured reducing his number by 17 million for the first time. when you account for those that can easily afford insurance but choose not to and the young who think they are invincible then the number is down to 12-15 million. Where does the 52 million come from?

Honest Debate said...

Sark,

So now you want to insult goons?

guy faulkes said...

Where does the 52 million come from?

Possibly the projected increase in the number of illegal aliens. Obama has no desire to keep these criminals out of the country.

Sarkazein said...

How about "the new black President"?

Sarkazein said...

Guy Faulkes-

The Democrats will not even allow the census to ask if legal.

Sarkazein said...

All the census takers have to do is ask, " Are here legally?" and if they answer "OK" then they are here illegally. It's easy.

Liberal POV said...

Guy

Keep trying to ride that dead horse.

Honest Debate said...

Steny Hoyer is now admiting that they don't have the votes to pass Pelosi's plan and the Saturday vote will be delayed.

I was not sure whether to put this here or on the rally thread as I feel sure they are related.

Nice work America.

Sarkazein said...

Press Releases

PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail
JCT Confirms Failure to Comply with Democrats’ Mandate Can Lead to 5 Years in Jail
Friday, November 06, 2009
Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

In response to the JCT letter, Camp said: “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail. It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”///


Fascists!!!

Honest Debate said...

Anyone surprised?

Sarkazein said...

I haven't seen any of you liberal sheep (not you Bridle) comment about the above article showing PRISON for non-compliance with Obama/Pelosi-care.
Do you just accept that loss of freedom?

Sarkazein said...

The House Democrats pass the "health-care" bill with a completely divided vote. The Democrats have no concern for the American people, only their political beliefs. As we further divide under this administration, Obama wins the title of the most polarizing President since Lincoln. Which ever side you are on, you have to be able to what the results of this deep division can be.

Sarkazein said...

Should read: have to be able to SEE what the results of this deep division can be.