This blog,originally founded by Blogger, who is listed in Marquis Who's Who and is a recipient of the Albert Nelson Marquis Lifetime Achievement Award. He holds a theological degree and a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Taught Psychology for 32 years and is now Professor Emeritus. Is a board-certified psychologist and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in his profession. Ministered as a chaplain, and pastored Baptist and Episcopal churches. Publications cover the integration of psychology and theology. Served in the Army, the Merchant Marines and the Peace Corps.

Sunday, January 24, 2010

Meltdown at the IPCC



I linked this story about the melting Himalayan glaciers in the comments section of another thread. I think Sark linked the same article. Now we get some more insight and it won't surprise anyone except the deniers.

The IPCC is often referred to as scientist. They are not. The UN isn't either.

51 comments:

Liberal POV said...

Flat Earthers

Because you may have found a case where Glacier melt may have been over stated doesn't mean it Global Climate change doesn't exist.

http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/glaciers.html

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/40473

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/12/13/science/earth/1247466103114/bolivias-glaciers-melt-away.html

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/environment/global-warming-environment/glacier-melt.html

Liberal POV said...

HD

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/player/environment/global-warming-environment/glacier-melt.html

Sarkazein said...

POV-

Climate change has always existed and always will. The point you so rapidly missed in this article, points to the lack of scientific study used to get to that prediction, by people you are so willing to believe.
If there was evidence of grazing animals on the ground previously covered by a retreating glacier, would that not tell you something?

Mike D. said...

I find it curious that those who have been the harshest critics of the quality of information that led us to invade Iraq, those great defenders of truth and data integrity, seem to have absolutely no problem accepting blatantly corrupted and manipulated climate data.

Could it be that they were lying? Could it be that integrity did not matter to them at all, but politics did?

Honest Debate said...

Great points Sark and Mike D.

"Could it be that integrity did not matter to them at all, but politics did?" -Mike D.

Yes it could be. I've often said that to some ideology matters more than truth. I just can't relate. The notion seems to be there is no truth just a continuum of perspective. If one holds that view then ideology reigns supreme.

Honest Debate said...

Lib,

I looked at the Nat G video since it was addressed to me. I didn't look at the other links as I believe the world is round.

I did some digging regarding the alpine glaciers. I found this.

From the link:

"National Geographic News reports the oft-repeated statistic that the glaciers at Montana’s Glacier National Park will disappear by the year 2030 is being revised:

But Daniel Fagre, a U.S. Geological Survey ecologist who works at Glacier, says the park’s namesakes will be gone about ten years ahead of schedule, endangering the region’s plants and animals.

The 2030 date, he said, was based on a 2003 USGS study, along with 1992 temperature predictions by the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

Oops, bad data.

Liberal POV said...

HD

By all means look at this one with photos.

http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/glaciers.html

What harm is their in preserving natural resources for future generations?

Why do we need to remove the surface of all mountains containing coal as fast as possible?

Do you really believe surface mining could that place in communities like Watauga , Avery, or other places of wealth?

Why do communities with the most coal have the poorest residents?

Why do you support the coal industry with a record of environmental and human abuse?

How many tons of fossile fuel have we extracted and consumed in the last 150 years?

China and India are now starting to repeat the US model. What will happen 50 years from now if that continues?

Honest Debate said...

Lib,

See the way you do me? Where do you get these questions? How can we engage in honest debate when you make up stuff about me?

Why aren't you happy to know the situation isn't as dire as predicted? Why aren't you angry at those who committed the fraud?

Those are five questions you won't answer but please answer this one: Are you of the mind that the "scientist" are justified in fudging the facts to make their point?

Liberal POV said...

HD

"Are you of the mind that the "scientist" are justified in fudging the facts to make their point?"

No, this undermines the whole better world for our children movement.

Now having said that the coal and fossil fuel industry has hired lobby groups to do their dirty work with unlimited funding just as the tobacco industry did a few decade back.
These lobbyist will sift all data looking for just this type error in judgement or data. Once found it will be hyped far beyond it's scientific importance.

HD
"How can we engage in honest debate when you make up stuff about me?"

What are you referring to?

Honest Debate said...

Lib,

Are you serious?

I don't think I should respond but I guess I'll never learn.

"What harm is their in preserving natural resources for future generations?" I do want to preserve natural resources for future generations...desperately with passion. I live a life that reflects that desire. If you believe, as you imply, that I feel differently then you made it up.

"Why do we need to remove the surface of all mountains containing coal as fast as possible?" We don't. Nobody does. Nobody to my knowledge has proposed it. I am horrified every time I travel through Kentucky and see the devastation. You think I want that? You made it up.

"Do you really believe surface mining could that place in communities like Watauga , Avery, or other places of wealth?" You made up what I believe.

"Why do you support the coal industry with a record of environmental and human abuse?" I support using coal because we have no choice. I support industry because it has improved our standard of living. I do not support "environmental and human abuse". You made that up.

Sarkazein said...

POV asked-"Why do communities with the most coal have the poorest residents?"

They don't. But imagine what they would look like with no coal industry.

Sarkazein said...

Another type of movement is through basal sliding. In this process, the glacier slides over the terrain on which it sits, lubricated by the presence of liquid water. As the pressure increases toward the base of the glacier, the melting point of water decreases, and the ice melts. Friction between ice and rock and geothermal heat from the Earth's interior also contribute to melting. This type of movement is dominant in temperate, or warm-based glaciers. The geothermal heat flux becomes more important the thicker a glacier becomes.[14]///


Man did it.

Liberal POV said...

Sark

Sixteen of those 100 poorest counties in America are in Ky and all coal producing communities except for the Indian Reservations i think most of the others will also be coal producing counties.

If you look at KY and WV counties without coal have higher standards of living.

The coal industry is the perfect example of failed capatialism. If you are a true capitalist you will want to fix such injustice of face returning to the era of Dickens.

Honest Debate said...

Lib,

If coal production ended tomorrow you would be in a serious pickle.

BTW, the industry has changed since Dickens' days.

Sarkazein said...

POV asked-"Why do communities with the most coal have the poorest residents?"

They don't. But imagine what they would look like with no coal industry.

Liberal POV said...

HD

No one suggest we end it tomorrow, but we have the technology to reduce consumption, have cleaner coal power plants,switch to wind, solar and natural gas.
Begin massive mass transportation project to both create jobs and more livable communities with new and renewed cities and towns. Does anyone really like the sprawl of America of Wal-mart fast foods then begin again with another Wal-mart all with low paying jobs?
Yes cap and trade is a way to bring that technology forward today.

Honest Debate said...

Yadda yadda yadda.

Sarkazein said...

POV-
If you bother to read this entire article, you will learn many coal miners don't see it the way you do.

Liberal POV said...

HD

"Yadda yadda yadda."

Is this an example of Honest Debate you want others to follow. I missed the thinking and intellect in this post.

Liberal POV said...

Four things here.

One the story is on underground mining which does less damage to the enviroment.

Two underground mining employees far more people in mining regions.

Three all coal is eventually removed from the communities leaving scared and depressed towns damaged roads and bad water.

Four the facts are at least 16 of the100 poorest counties in America are in the coal fields of Ky. Surrounding Counties without coal are not in the list.

The coal industries are still an example of failed capitalism.
How do you think that can be fixed?

guy faulkes said...

One cannot debate with POV. He believes the liberal talking points with a religious fervor. If you try to show him evidence of the errors in his logic, he shuts both eyes tightly, puts his fingers in his ears, and shouts La La La La La continuously and as loudly as he can. Irrefutable proof of bad science, censorship, and fraud mean nothing to him.

Liberal POV said...

Guy

Welcome to the discussion. Can you bring something other than a coal industry smoke screen.

What about the photos in this link?

http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/pages/glaciers.html


What about the questions below?

Why do communities with the most coal have the poorest residents in America?

What harm is their in preserving natural resources for future generations?

Why do we need to remove the surface of all mountains containing coal as fast as possible?

Do you really believe surface mining could that place in communities like Watauga , Avery, or other places of wealth?


Why do you support the coal industry with a record of environmental and human abuse?

How many tons of fossile fuel have we extracted and consumed in the last 150 years?

China and India are now starting to repeat the US model. What will happen 50 years from now if that continues?

Sarkazein said...

POV deciphered-" Four the facts are at least 16 of the100 poorest counties in America are in the coal fields of Ky.

16 out of 100. POV's version of all.

Liberal POV said...

Sark

Many on your list of poorest counties in America are Indian Reservations many more are also coal communities but I did not research all 100 poorest counties, just those in KY.

http://www.controlledbycoal.com/wv-poverty--coal-mining.html

Sarkazein said...

POV-

Seriously, did you know other factors melted glaciers other than man?

Liberal POV said...

Sark

"Seriously, did you know other factors melted glaciers other than man?"

What's your answer to the following questions?

What harm is there in preserving natural resources for future generations?

Why do we need to remove the surface of all mountains containing coal as fast as possible?

Do you really believe surface mining could that place in communities like Watauga , Avery, or other places of wealth?

Why do communities with the most coal have the poorest residents?

Why do you support the coal industry with a record of environmental?
How many tons of fossile fuel have we extracted and consumed in the last 150 years?

China and India are now starting to repeat the US model. What will happen 50 years from now if that continues?

Sarkazein said...

POV asked-" Why do communities with the most coal have the poorest residents? (again)

Why do you support the coal industry with a record of environmental? " (just guessing)

I support the coal industry because they help keep those poor bastards in the 100 out of 100 poorest counties from freezing in the dark.

Now, did you know there are other factors involved in melting glaciers?
I'll add to my questions, how do you think those poor bastards could live if they were covered by a glacier as the Great Lake and Minnesota areas and parts of New York were?
Do you think poor people would do better, if more of Earth was covered by glaciers and there was less industry ?

Liberal POV said...

Sark

Why do you support the coal industry with a record of environmental disasters over the scientific community?
How many tons of fossil fuel have we extracted and consumed in the last 150 years?

China and India are now starting to repeat the US model. What will happen 50 years from now if that continues?

Sarkazein said...

POV-

I'll take that as NO, you had NO idea glaciers melted from other things beside temperatures rising.
Geothermal and friction and thickness.

guy faulkes said...

POV, you should stop chanting La La La La long enough to try to get it through the haze from which you view the world that most of us are in favor of alternative energy such as wind and solar power. We are also in favor of the improved clean coal technology, natural gas, and becoming energy independent by harvesting our own oil reserves. You do not ever seem to want to admit that mining sites can be reclaimed as recreational areas and living space. I guess you could say that we are the progressive tinkers, if the word progressive had no been hijacked as a synonym for socialist.

Liberal POV said...

Guy

The lobbying efforts of the coal industry are designed to keep doing things as we alwayss have not a progressive shift to cleaner power plants,alternative energy such as wind and solar power or natural gas.
You buy the coal industry line hook line and sinker.
I'll bet con artist love calling on you.
Guy you're the poster child for flat earthers.

guy faulkes said...

POV, I really believe that you truly desire to sit shivering naked in the dark until you die, as would result from the effects of the policies you endorse. You have never achieved understanding of the concept of either a flat or round earth because this would require individual thought. You have none, only talking points given you by your masters.

Sarkazein said...

More scientific deception aleged.

Why would some think, of all the people in the world, only scientist are above reproach, Bridle?

Liberal POV said...

Flat Earthers


What reasons do you have opposing government policy that would reduce fuel consumption polution, greenhouse gases, carbon emissions and encourage the use of solar, wind and Natural gas?

Don't you folks want to be energy independent?

Guy please don't give me that Exxon propaganda line drill baby drill, at best that would add 2% or less and will take 10 years. Save that reserve for our great grand children.

guy faulkes said...

POV, I answered your inane rant before you posted it, but we oppose restrictive government regulations because they are based on bad science, a fraudulent con game, and a hoax.

Drill baby Drill! Drill here! Drill Now!

Sarkazein said...

POV- here is a MILLION reasons why it has nothing to do with your list.

Sarkazein said...

POV- Here is an example of how your kind feels for the poor and the environment:

Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., is a key climate change player. He went to Copenhagen last year. Last week, we asked him about the $2,200-a-day bill for room and food. ///

That doesn't even count the hookers. And you know that guy had to pay a minimum of triple the going rate.

Sarkazein said...

$2,200.00 a day! POV

Liberal POV said...

Sark

Copenhagen can be expensive.

Honest Debate said...

LiberalPOV wrote: "...at best that would add 2% or less and will take 10 years."

It's worth pointing out that GWB supported drilling in ANWR in the 2000 campaign...ten years ago.

Liberal POV said...

HD

Why not save that for future generations?

Where's the conservative in your position?

We have other options, think deeper.

Honest Debate said...

"Why not save that for future generations?" LiberalPOV

I thought future generations wouldn't be using fossil fuels. Isn't that what you want? Besides, there's plenty.

Honest Debate said...

"Why would some think, of all the people in the world, only scientist are above reproach, Bridle?" -Sarkazein

Bridle must have finally realized he has lost the argument so he's gone. He either actually looked at the evidence or decided to ignore it because he's so smart. It's easier to believe lies if you ignore truth.

Sarkazein said...

Our WORK HERE on this thread has paid off. Let the spring thaw begin!

Liberal POV said...

HD

"I thought future generations wouldn't be using fossil fuels. Isn't that what you want? Besides, there's plenty."

We will still need fertilizer, plastic, fuel for buses and trains, ships all coming from oil.

Why do you people want to market and consume 10 million years of oil stored beneath the earth's surface in a single life time? Where iis the conservative here?

Honest Debate said...

Some glaciers are shrinking and some are growing. Just some more evidence for Lib, BB and Bridle to ignore.

Sarkazein said...

Great link H.D.
Can the liberals admit this is happening? Somewhere in their collective minds they have shut out any facts disputing global warming. It's just weird. It is truly a mass hysteria caused by a hoax. Global warming is collective effervescence, with the crowd cheering for doom.
Bridle, obviously intelligent, cannot accept dissenting views on this one subject. The great scientist Al Gore said it is so, so it is so. The UN, noted for failures, anti-semitism, anti-Americanism, bribe accepting, said it is so, so it is so.
POV is warped into a position that if you don't accept global warming, you are anti-environment and hate mountains. It's just weird.

guy faulkes said...

There was just a spot on the news that indicate that the hole in the ozone is healing itself. It allso says that the healing of the hole will cause more global warming. Oh well.

If there was anything to the hydrocarbon scam, I would have to withdraw my offer to HD to go out on the porch with a can of hairspray in each hand as apparently this would not bring on warmer temperatures. As the hole is closing on its own, there is no need to do anything.

Honest Debate said...

Sark,

"It's just weird" sums this whole thing up well. It really does defy logic.

guy faulkes said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1246661/New-scandal-Climate-Gate-scientists-accused-hiding-data-global-warming-sceptics.html

Sarkazein said...

Beat them in to submission with mountains of evidence to the contrary.