This blog,originally founded by Blogger, who is listed in Marquis Who's Who and is a recipient of the Albert Nelson Marquis Lifetime Achievement Award. He holds a theological degree and a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Taught Psychology for 32 years and is now Professor Emeritus. Is a board-certified psychologist and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in his profession. Ministered as a chaplain, and pastored Baptist and Episcopal churches. Publications cover the integration of psychology and theology. Served in the Army, the Merchant Marines and the Peace Corps.

Thursday, February 25, 2010

Health Care Summit Farce

If you are watching this farce called a Health Care Summit, I hope you are also watching Newt's live comments on The Real Story.

Just as we feared, Obama has suckered the Republicans. Lamar Alexander told the president at the beginning, that the American people wanted them to work on health reform piece meal. In no time at all Obama flipped them and had them debating the details of a comprehensive bill. Lamar should have listened to himself and the Republicans should go home after lunch. They have been had.

54 comments:

Blogger said...

From Drudge

'I don't count my time because I'm the President' -- Obama on why Dems have controlled more speaking time...
CLOCK... Democrats: 74 minutes; Republicans: 37 minutes...

Blogger said...

A panelist on Fox just observed that the Democrats’ game plan is to keep saying that there is a lot of agreement. Then when they go to reconciliation they can declare that the summit demonstrated that the differences are minor, therefore reconciliation is acceptable.

Grrrrrrr

guy faulkes said...

We knew it was a stacked deck when it was proposed. I do not think this debate is going to change anyone's mind.

I wish that the Republicans had replied to Pelsoi's statement that there was not time to start over by saying that as the Democrats did not want a bipartisan bill created in all aspects with input from across the isle, that there was no use to continue, got up in mass and walked out. It would have made the point and saved time.

Most of the responses I have seen from surfing the net and radio are that the Democrats are not fairing well in the public's opinion.

Reader said...

Obama's arrogance with his nose in the air is making me sick. I've got it recording on two channels now. Will try to listen on computer while I work.

Blogger said...

Obama started out the Summit by saying that of the tens of thousands of letters he receives each day, he takes 10 up to bed with him to read. He said of those 10 at least 5 are tragic stories of people denied health care.

Go figure. A huge majority of people hate this president’s politics. Thousands of them must write him each day to tell him how they feel. Somebody help me figure out how he reaches into the thousands of letters and always comes up with 10 that include half sad healthcare stories.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

Blogger said...

Democrats are psyching themselves to use reconciliation. As usual, they say,”Ya Ya, Republicans did it first.” I thought the bad behavior of Republicans was why the voters threw them out and went for “change.” How do you like that “changy thing?”

Sarkazein said...

Obama telling Senator McCain "the campaign is over" made me laugh out loud. I am surprised the whole room didn't lose it at that point.
Beside the humor in Obama's statement, he was also disrespectful. About the time Senator McCain retired as a naval captain (bird colonel), Obama was in the height of his self-admitted drug years. Naval Captain McCain, a leader of men, Obama a bong sucker.

Reader said...

Just a question. Will the premiums go up or down? Who was not factual as Obama says.

Sarkazein said...

Reader- There is no possible way the Democrats could know the answer to that question. If they say rates will go down, they are lying.

Sarkazein said...

Reader- One thing is for sure. You will have more government paper work to do for your employees. You will be paid at the same rate the government pays you to collect taxes, child support, and wage garnishee(sp). ZIP
You will also be exposed to more laws punishing you for not doing it per their 2,400 page law.

Reader said...

Just as I thought Sark. From everything I've been reading, Paul Ryan gave Obama a spanking. I was really impressed when he spoke and had to click over to see who he was...while working of course.

Honest Debate said...

Paul Ryan was great. Here he is.

All in all I thought Republicans did well. All they really needed to do is hold even. Obama is the one who needs the long ball. I don't think he got it.

guy faulkes said...

Obama's summit on Obama:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb/26/obama-listens-at-health-summit-but-mostly-hears-fr/

I think the Republicans were finally able to present their ideas in spite of the main stream fringe media. The Republicans said lets start over an fix things incrementally. The Democrats said lets pass this bill.

If reconciliation is attempted, do you think it will damage the Democrats even if it fails? I think it is political suicide for them either way.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/33510.html

Honest Debate said...

Lamar Alexander set the tone on reconciliation right off the bat. Many followed up. The whole exercise was useless if they use it. Obama would not take it off the table. All his talk about working together and listening to each other was total BS. He lies.

Sarkazein said...

I didn't care much for Lamar Alexander years ago (the flannel shirt days) when he first appeared as a candidate for President.
What I've seen lately, I like.

Sarkazein said...

On the lighter side

Blogger said...

By the end of the televised event, Mr. Obama had spoken for 119 minutes - nine minutes more than the 110 minutes consumed by 17 Republicans. The 21 Democratic lawmakers used 114 minutes, giving the president and his supporters a whopping 233 minutes, according to a "talk clock" kept by GOP aides.

Fortunately for me, I zone out when Obama is on.

Reader said...

Can using the reconciliation be stopped or is this something that they can use regardless? I was impressed at what the republicans threw out to the dems, fact wise. When I heard Rangel speak, he was just as arrogant. Today I'm sure he's having a different thought about himself...or maybe not. Arrogance does that to people.

guy faulkes said...

The best hope for stopping reconciliation is in the House. The bill will have to go through a process in which both houses have to agree on a final version. There are Democrats in the House that, while they may not be conservative, they are from conservative districts. In order to have any chance for reelection, they will have to vote against the bill. This is not to say that some of the Democrats would approve of the bill if it contained things they to which they were personally opposed, such as publicly funded abortions.

Reader said...

Thanks Guy. I had never heard of it until a few days ago.. looked it up, but still didn't quite understand how it could be used for health care.

guy faulkes said...

It is not supposed to be. It is to be used for budget purposes.

David C Gross said...

I wish that you could understand what it is like when you lose your health care insurance when the company bounces your premium so high that you can no longer afford it, and you have tried to get other private health care insurance and not one private health care insurance providers will even talk to you, because they have decided that your multiple medical problems are now pre-existing so that they want nothing to do with you and you are forced to go to the government for help to get your health care. That is the situation I am in so all I can say is THANK GOD FOR NC-MEDICAID because without it I would be DEAD and in my grave by now.

guy faulkes said...

David, thank you for two things. You wrote the longest comprehensible sentence that I have ever read. You also have proven health care is available for those that need it.

Sarkazein said...

David C Gross- This also gives you first hand knowledge on what it is like to deal with the government for your health-care payment. The government level you dealt with was probably State, but federal is on it's way Patient #4436274235667834563/drje883.

David C Gross said...

Sarkazien I have also dealt with the Federal Government and it took 3 years but I won. I got my SSI decision on the 25th of Nov. 2009 that I had won my hearing and I would start getting my SSI starting in January 2010 and it happened. If you have good people working for you and you have a provable case then you can win So don't bad mouth the Federal Gov to me

Sarkazein said...

David C Gross-

You are funny...I hope. Three years to get the government assistance you think you need, and that's a good thing? Having to get the help of TV lawyers I presume?
Are you an old retired person as Social Security was meant to supplement?

David Gross said...

Sarkazien you are an F****** BASTARD I am a disabled adult and NO I did NOT hire a TV lawyer he was a local Boone NC attorney Samuel Furgiele and the reason it took 3 years is that the stupid President Bush would not appoint enough Social Security Admin Law Judges for NC during his wasted 8 years in office

David Gross said...

Hey Blogger it isn't nice for you to allow A******s like sarkazien to demean and smear others who respond to an issue with honesty and openness

Honest Debate said...

Mr. Gross,

You seem angry.

Sarkazein said...

David C Gross-

You are funny. Of course President Bush re-wrote all the rules for Social Security when he became President. He personally reviewed your application, not one of the bureaucrats that have been there for decades, or are in training. It will be just great to have the same people reviewing your lifestyle to see if you deserve medical treatment. The same people meaning, bureaucrats and lawyers. Now all the TV lawyers and
Shyster Samuel Furgiele (your spelling) can rest as Obama will give anyone that asks SSI. Are you one of the thousands of chemically dependent people that qualify for SSI?

Sarkazein said...

David C Gross-
I may be wrong, but if memory serves it is the House Ways and Means committee lead by Democrat Charlie Rangle for the past three years that would be writing the rules for your government SSI hand-out.

David Gross said...

Sarkazein: No I am NOT chemically dependent as a matter of fact I have not had a single beer or wine or any alcohol for the past 23 years due to the fact that I am an insulin dependent diabetic, I am also ashmatic, arthritic, and I have sleep apnea and I get migraine headaches that I would not wish on my worst enemy so I resent the insinuation that I am chemically dependent

I would NOT choose to have all of the medical problems I have Yes I take medications but only what my Personal Care physician perscribes for me, if it was up to me I would not take anything stronger then a Tylenol for a headache

Sarkazein said...

David C Gross-

Do you mind sharing the SSI money with alcoholics and drug abusers or do you think they should not get our tax money?

David Gross said...

Sarkazein: It is NOT for me to judge as each case is different and can either be won or lost based on the circumstances of each case. the standards for a win are extremely strict and hard to get over, but a judge called an (ALJ) makes the final decision.

I am not crazy about the idea of people who use drugs getting it especially since I simply don't understand why anyone who doesn't have to put drugs into their bodies do that.

Alcoholics have a disease that can be controlled but never totally overcome. One of my favorite people who passed away at 83 years of age was a 30 year member of AA and had'nt had a drop of alcohol in 30 years but still called himself a recovering alcoholic. He would not hide it and was proud of the fact that he had been able to hold on for so long without alcohol, by the by he was a retired Catholic Priest and was my confessor I admired the hell out of him for being so strong, and I miss him a lot as he was always completely straight with me about my own problems and how I had to be strong as well.

Sarkazein said...

David C Gross-

Would you admit in your 3 year struggle to get SSI, that it was not President Bush's fault and it was Charlie Wrangle's fault as he was the overseer of Social Security for the past three years?

David Gross said...

No, it was President Bush's fault it was his administration which wrote new Eligibility guidelines that had to be followed by the Bush Administration Social Security Administrative Law Judges which were much more difficult to get past then when President Clinton was in office.

President Bush deliberately put my life at risk when he did that and I hold him responsible for that, as we all should.

People have DIED unnecessarily due to the very long wait times between the time of application and the time of the hearing. that is the height of inhumanity. and it is morally indefensible.

One case comes to mind that was written about in the Charlotte Observer.

A man living in Charlotte who had been living in the Charlotte homeless men's shelter had been fighting for his SSI and Medicaid benefits for 4 to 5 years. He was very sick and he was suicidally depressed. He walked out to I-77 walked out onto an overpass and jumped off. He was killed by the impact with a tractor-trailer. A month later his only surviving family member, his sister was notified that he had been approved, but it came too late for him because he was DEAD.

People should NOT have to wait that long for what turns out to be a very short hearing, maybe an hour or so. I got my decision 33 days after my hearing. I had to wait 32 months for my hearing for a total of 33 months 3 days.

Sarkazein said...

DavidC Gross-

I remember President Bush trying to reform Social Security with a private sector investment, but I don't remember his administration writing rules, normally done by the House Ways and Means committee, to slow down the process for slackers and ne'er-do-wells in receiving their government hand-outs. You maybe right, but I couldn't find it anywhere.

Sarkazein said...

DavidC Gross-

I remember President Bush trying to reform Social Security with a private sector investment, but I don't remember his administration writing rules, normally done by the House Ways and Means committee, to slow down the process for slackers and ne'er-do-wells in receiving their government hand-outs. You maybe right, but I couldn't find it anywhere.

Sarkazein said...

Opps, my fault for the twice as nice post.

Sarkazein said...

David C Gross-

Just a guess, but I would say the time has expanded for a hearing because the amount of requests for the SSI benefit has risen dramatically. Part of the rise is probably from TV/billboard lawyers scamming for the business, and part of it is our society becoming more and more entitled to unearned money.

David Gross said...

Sarkazein: There is an old native american saying that goes "before you can judge anyone but yourself, you must walk a mile in their moccasins.

It seems real easy for you to make biased statements, but you cannot know what it is like for people like me who WANT to work but can't due to medical concerns.

It is not fun and makes me so angry sometimes that I can't, but if I want to keep on living I have to do what my PCP tells me to do, as frustrating as it is.

Try to understand what others are going through before you make judgemental statements. Our Lord taught us in the Book of Matthew these words "Judge NOT lest ye be judged, for by the same measure that you use you also shall be measured."

This is how I try to live my life, because I try to be as good a witness as I can possibly be, but this issue cuts very close for me, so I hope you will forgive my angry outburst earlier. I just hope you can understand what is at stake for me.

Sarkazein said...

David C Gross-

You presumed I included you in the slacker and ne'er-do-well group. I had commented on the dopers and winos getting SSI because they are dopers and winos... and they do.
You wrote that you are not one.
Social Security wasn't started with the intention of giving disabled people a monthly allowance, it was supposed to keep widows from starving. But, this is how government programs morph. Just like Obama-care will morph into totalitarianism.
An old indian once said, get your own damn TeePee whitey and get off my land, my ancestors are buried here. But you probably still own or rent land in a tree covered country setting where Indians once roamed.
I am not judging you, I am judging a government program run-a-muck.
Do you believe the dramatic increase in applicants for SSI and the dramatic rise in lawyer assisted hearings could have added to the waiting time?

David Gross said...

Sarkazein:

The system is so complicated that it used to be that you didn't need an attorney to get through it, but now there are so many rules and regulations and eligibility requirements that you have to comply with that it is basically impossible to do without an attorney.

Especially if the government decides to fight you to the bitter end which happened to me the first time I applied. The gov fought me so that it went as far as the Federal 4th Circuit Court of appeals in Richmond VA where I lost. This was my second time through the system.

Sarkazein said...

David C Gross-

Look forward to an even more complicated system as it took 2,700 pages to explain it. SSD and SSI claims were up 15% in 2009. As the economy worsens these claims go up. Coincidence?
My main point is, you write that it took years and lawyers to get what you obviously felt you deserved or needed from the government. Many would have given up. As the government takes more control of these things, the more complicated it will get as proven by your history.

Honest Debate said...

Mr. Gross,

Let me tell you about my friend "Tic". He is our blacksmiths son. He has helped his dad here every Monday for the last 20 or so years. Tic is now 40 and mentally retarded. He also has a very bum leg and every step is difficult. His father is a gruff, hard-working man who is 67. He relies on Tic more and more as he gets older. Tic retrieves and returns all the horses and pulls the old shoes off. Despite his disabilities, tic never complains. As a matter of fact he's a happy guy. He's useful. He's good at something. People depend on him. He's got something to do and people that love him.

The government did not give any of that to him. I am not making any judgment about you. I don't know you but I did observe that you sounded angry. You confirmed that later. My unsolicited advice is don't look to government to solve your problems. I'm not saying that you don't deserve whatever you get or that you should not pursue it. I'm just saying you can still be miserable even with financial security.

I guess I'm blessed. Hell, I know I am. We all are. Maybe because I am healthy and can work I take it for granted but "work" doesn't always mean "physical work". Stephen Hawking is a good example of someone who was very successful and completely disabled. People write books and songs. Experts consult. Managers manage. My point is being physically unable to sell your labor should not prevent you from getting good at something and being useful. Happiness is easier to obtain with a sense of purpose. Ask Tic.

Sarkazein said...

I got a little verklempt on that one H.D. Life is good.

David C Gross said...

I guess that everyone who has commented except me has private health care insurance, I am one of "millions" of your fellow Americans who can't even get a private health care insurance provider to talk to me let alone allow me to buy a policy.

When you have ended up in the hospital ICU like I have in October of 2009 and been there for a week and you do not know how you are going to pay a bill of "THOUSANDS" of dollars out of your own pocket due to the lack of health insurance, then come talk to me and tell me just how good life is. you can contact me at

grossdc2@yahoo.com

Honest Debate said...

Mr. Gross,

Actually, I have no health insurance but the insurance companies will talk to me, so there's that.

I can't for the life of me understand why you think anyone doesn't think some insurance reform is necessary. I also can't figure out why you think being against this boondoggle means we don't care for our fellow man. IMHO being against this shows compassion for our fellow man. You could be this guy.

I apologize for being preachy, I was just trying to help. Now I'll go from preachy to judgmental.

You wrote: "When you have ended up in the hospital ICU like I have in October of 2009 and been there for a week and you do not know how you are going to pay a bill of "THOUSANDS" of dollars out of your own pocket due to the lack of health insurance, then come talk to me and tell me just how good life is."

How ungrateful can you be? "THOUSANDS of dollars", is that all? Did you loose your house? Are your kids going hungry? I'm assuming you have a computer and internet service, do you have cable TV. A cell phone? Your life was saved and you want to quibble about a few thousand dollars? You demand that I (taxpayer) pay your medical bills.

You should read this.

Your damn right life is good. You're an American. You are lucky as hell. Quit felling sorry for yourself.This cold have been your fate. I gather you are a Christian. Be glad a little ministering doesn't get you this. It was just chance that you were born here instead of here.

Two wedding stories: My extended family rented a house in Connecticut for my brothers wedding. It was on the water. The landlord and his wife lived next door. The wife was in a wheelchair and had tiny short arms that didn't work well. There was also gadgets and tubes all in her. She had wheeled herself down to the water one beautiful morning when I approached her. I was a little uneasy but had a question. Before I could say a word she said to me, "We sure are blessed". That changed me.

A while back I pinched a muscle in my shoulder that sent severe pain to my arm for several days. We had a wedding to attend for one of our employees. I was hurting bad and didn't want to go, but I did. As I sat there pouting and feeling sorry for myself the bridesmaids came out. One of them had an artificial arm with a hook for a hand. At that point I was glad my arm hurt. I quit pouting and felt shame for doing so.

David C. Gross said...

Honest_Debate:

I am angry, I'm angry because when you don't have those thousands of dollars and don't have a way to pay them, the only way out is to declare bankruptcy. Even then you now have to figure out a payment plan to pay that debt back.

I'm on SSI and Medicaid and I barely have enough to pay my bills and put food in my stomach and keep a roof over my head and I don't have rich relatives who can bail me out.

I'm also single so there is no other income in the house to help out either, I'm on my own, where am I going to scrape together enough to get my head above water so that I don't drown in a sea of medical debt.

I had private insurance until Blue Cross-Blue Shield of NC the greedy bastard insurance company decided that I was a bad risk and jacked my rates so high that I could no longer pay my monthly premiums and I was FORCED OUT of coverage.

Do you know what it is like to have multiple pre-existing conditions and have NO health insurance coverage and have to wonder and worry how you are going to be able to afford to see a doctor? just to stay alive?

Honest Debate said...

Mr. Gross,

I can't help you, not that you asked (other than wanting my money from taxes).

Who are you angry at? The insurance company? Am I to assume they never paid for squat and you'd have been better off with no insurance? Where is that anger getting you? It's killing you.

So you have your life and home. You pay your bills and you haven't even had to declare bankruptcy. You are lucky. You are blessed.

Here's an idea. If you don't have rich relatives to bail you out then why don't you make more money? Prosperity is a choice. Be the relative that bails out others.

Look Mr.Gross, I'm not trying to argue with you. I honestly feel sorry for you. Not because of your disabilities or lack of insurance. It's because you feel helpless and you are not.

David C Gross said...

It sounds to me like people like you would rather that people like me be dead and in our graves so that people like you don't have to help people like me to stay alive.

As far as I am concerned, people like you are GUILTY of killing thousands of people like me every day who die because they don't have access to medical care, or access to medical care insurance.

Companies like Humana, Blue Cross, etc.... are dumping people like me off the rolls so that they can inflate their corporate profits to their shareholders and NOT spend those billions of dollars they are raking in each and evry year on basic paitent care.

It sounds to me like your only concern is the almighty dollar, and not on making sure that your fellow americans have access to decent basic medical care so that they can stay out of emergency rooms, and out of hospital beds, which cost thousands of dollars a day.

All I can say to people like you is SHAME SHAME SHAME. I hope that when your day comes to stand before the judgement seat, I hope that HE sends you to a very warm place where you can roast for eternity.

Sarkazein said...

David C Gross wrote-"It sounds to me like people like you would rather that people like me be dead and in our graves so that people like you don't have to help people like me to stay alive.."

OK, what's the punch-line?

Honest Debate said...

It's okay Mr. Gross, I'm not mad. You really should consider what I wrote though. I really was trying to help.

Honest Debate said...

Our Lord taught us in the Book of Matthew these words "Judge NOT lest ye be judged, for by the same measure that you use you also shall be measured." -David Gross

"As far as I am concerned, people like you are GUILTY of killing thousands of people like me every day who die because they don't have access to medical care, or access to medical care insurance." -David C Gross