This blog,originally founded by Blogger, who is listed in Marquis Who's Who and is a recipient of the Albert Nelson Marquis Lifetime Achievement Award. He holds a theological degree and a doctorate in Counseling Psychology. Taught Psychology for 32 years and is now Professor Emeritus. Is a board-certified psychologist and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award in his profession. Ministered as a chaplain, and pastored Baptist and Episcopal churches. Publications cover the integration of psychology and theology. Served in the Army, the Merchant Marines and the Peace Corps.

Tuesday, March 9, 2010

2010 Census

"American"

I wish I could take credit for this great idea. If it was up to me no one would ever be asked their race on any government document.

30 comments:

Honest Debate said...

The historian side of me loves the information that censi provide. I've gone through many in the Alexander County Library. It's fascinating.

I'll even give credit to Obama for limiting the questions to 10.

Having said all that, I still won't comply fully. I'll give them my name and the basic info but not my phone number. My race will definitely be "American".

Sarkazein said...

The Census has kept the joblessness rate from going up at last count.

guy faulkes said...

HD, are you going to put American or Native American. I am thinking of putting mongrel because that is what we are. I do not think there is a pure blood anything if any of your ancestors have been here for over three or four generations.

Mike D. said...

I'm going with "American".

Sarkazein said...

I'm going with NASCAR.

Anonymous said...

What, specifically, is so objectionable about the inclusion of racial questions in the census?

There's apparently strong feelings on the issue stirring within several of you. What's the deal?

Sarkazein said...

A'mous- Census data is used in political gerrymandering for one thing. Since 90+% Blacks vote Democrat, the data is used to further segregate society. Political groups use the data to push their political agenda. Beside the fact that it just ain't their business.

Honest Debate said...

Nonny,

I hate the hyphenated America thing. America is a melting pot. It would be crazy for me to call myself a French/German/Indian-American. It's crazy to refer to a black Haitian as an African-American. It would make more sense to call a white immigrant from Johannesburg living in Miami an African-American. As Guy Faulkes points out we're all mongrels. I want a colorblind society and don't give a whit what someone's race is. I'd rather judge a person by the content of their character. I see no reason for the government to ask such a silly, unanswerable question.

Anonymous said...

Census-generated racial info isn't really required for gerrymandering when one can simply look at historical results of any precinct's party-line voting instead. Besides, election results are tallied far more frequently (making them more updately accurate) than the once-a-decade census.

And we can still each choose to judge people by the content of their character, no matter what question we or they are asked. The census doesn't do anything to change that.

I am interested, though, in hearing which political groups "use the data to push their political agenda," Sark, and how such pushing would be prevented if any census question were removed.

Sarkazein said...

A'mous- Why do you think Rahm Emanuel wanted the Census data going to the WH instead of Commerce?
Not just for a head count, that's for sure.
The Rahm that snuck into the Congressional locker room showers by coming up through the floor drain.

Sarkazein said...

A'mous-

This is a LINK to over 13,000 hits regarding "Racial gerrymandering census"

Anonymous said...

Sark: I have no idea why Rahm might prefer to have data going anywhere, but if you know, please share.

Thanks for the Google search link showing that those three words have been used frequently on the web. Here's a link to over 460,000 hits on the words "candy," "monkey" and "bar": http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=monkey+candy+bars&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

Now can you please specify the "political groups (that) use the data to push their political agenda," and then explain how such pushing would be prevented if any census question were removed?

Sarkazein said...

A'mous, you asked for the info... I gave it to you.
I Googled monkey, candy, and bar with no luck on getting info about the political use of census data in gerrymandering. In the 13,000 hits on census gerrymandering I gave you, there were.
What race are you? What side of retribution will you be on? Payee or payer? Please answer giving race of great great great grandparents on both sides and all maternal and paternal grandparents and parents.

Sarkazein said...

A'mous- Here's another's well written opinion:



monkey candy bar

guy faulkes said...

If we are truly to be a society in which racial prejudice does not matter, then the question of race should never be stated on any document other than an identifying characteristic such as height, weight, and hair color on a document such as a hunting license. If the license has a picture, there is no reason to state it on a license. This may be illegal anyway. Would you consider this a form of racial profiling?

What possible purpose could there be for having to state the race to which you belong on a job application, a college application, or a census form unless this information is to be used for some kind of discrimination? If we are equal, we are equal.

On further consideration, I am considering checking other on the list of races on the census form and writing in "human".

Sarkazein said...

A'mous- Here is another link. Tell me how this data would NOT be used by GROUPS to push their political agendas.

Anonymous said...

Sark: Your first article link is very informative, yet it fails to show how the elimination of any racial questions in the census would change anything you seem to have a problem with.

As I pointed out before, gerrymandering can just as easily, AND MORE ACCURATELY, be conducted by relying on historic and trending precinct-specific election results. Taking race out of the census would have no impact on this capability.

Your second link goes to a vast pool of ethnic information, yet its existence still does not show which political groups you believe will use race-based, census-provided data to push their political agendas or how they'll do it. Further, that link provides no information pointing to how any such pushing will be eliminated or lessened by the removal of a racial question on the census questionnaire.

I do actually agree with most everyone here to the extent that I personally see no valid reason for the inclusion of racial questions, outside, perhaps, of the use of demographic info by private enterprise to properly assess the potential success of any targeted investment/advertising/marketing programs they may plan. And while I know everyone here wants government to get off the little man's back, I doubt any would claim that it's the responsibility of the federal government to provide free marketing demographics for private business owners.

Where I differ from most here on this matter is in my belief that the question itself represents no significant risk (or any, for that matter) of harm to individuals or to our society. I find it a non-issue, another silly boogeyman, and I still haven't been shown how any perceived harm can be eliminated through its removal from the census.

Sarkazein said...

A'mous wrote-"Sark: Your first article link is very informative, yet it fails to show how the elimination of any racial questions in the census would change anything you seem to have a problem with."

As race remains a priority to the government, as per the census, it forces me at gun point to participate in the governments objectionable priorities. By eliminating the race question, it allows me to NOT participate in governmental racial profiling and racial gerrymandering.

Anonymous said...

OK. I can see how you'd personally be removed from direct and active participation in racially-based governmental decisions if you were not forced to answer a census question about your race. That is clear. And I sincerely believe that your comfort level is a valid concern.

But aside from solving for your personal discomfort, I'm still at a loss as to how the removal of the race question would solve for any other perceived harm, as we all know that profiling and gerrymandering can and will (though they should not) continue regardless of what may or may not be included in the census.

guy faulkes said...

The critical point Anonymous made is when he said that racial information may or may not be used for objectionable purposes. This point leads to the conclusion that if the information is not available, it could not be used for these objectionable purposes.. It appears that Anonymous has no reasons that make this type of information necessary for a legitimate purpose. Therefore logic would indicate there is no reason to provide the information.

Johnny Rico said...

Why ask about race at all. Being an American, what does it matter. It is telling when groups such as La Raza say something like, "As a Latino, I think we need immigration reform".

Does the La Raza member mean to say, "As an American, we need immigration reform".

You see, unless you are white, race is supposed to matter. If you do happen to be in the most discriminated against category of people in the United States, whites, then it shouldn't even be mentioned. If negros can have black history month then why can't whites have a White Heritage Day?

The reverse discrimination in this country is only getting worse.

Anonymous said...

True, to an extent. Certain conclusions are being drawn here based, seemingly, under the assumption that results garnered from a racial question on the census represent the only source of data upon which the government can base racially-oriented decisions or policies. But that's simply not the case. So while I agree that I personally know of no useful, legit, critical advantage the question serves (and I readily admit that I'm not the end-all/be-all for knowledge related to government decisions), aside from Sark's personal discomfort point (which I find completely valid), I see no perceived harm that the question's removal would solve for.

If anyone can point to that specific, unique harm, I'd gladly welcome their input.

Anonymous said...

Sorry. My last post was a direct response to guy's.

Sarkazein said...

A'mous-

There is cost in the government deciphering of the racial profiling as shown in my earlier link to the US Census racists web site pages. Probably millions just on the race question. It is used by groups wanting racial quotas, therefore dividing our country along racial lines.
I notice you chose not to answer as to your race and paternal and maternal racial background.
Either answer the question, or Blogger's agents will come to your house and either give you a color test, or arrest you for failing to cooperate. What are you ashamed of?

Anonymous said...

So now the objection is based on cost savings? OKaaaaaay.

Are the groups you refer to wanting to impose racial quotas the same political groups you claimed wanted to advance their political agendas? If so, how would the elimination of the census question prevent them from doing so?

Will independent polling and market research firms simply go away if the question is removed? Will all DMVs and law enforcement agencies destroy their computer-logged descriptive identification information if the question is removed? Will people lose their ability to count and discern skin color if the question is removed? Of course not.

And to answer your hoop-jumping question, I am white and of mixed European lineage. I am a third generation native and all four sets of great-grandparents arrived in this country at the turn of the 20th century. One set from Germany, one from Ireland, one from England and one from France.

Sarkazein said...

A'mous-

There are multiple reasons for not wanting to be forced to divulge my race at government demand... not only one... Okaaaaaay?
Is independent polling paid for by tax money? No? So there is a difference. Just as liberals want me to be forced at gun point to pay for their abortions through my taxes, they want me to pay for racist interrogations by the government. It won't stop liberals from murdering their pre-borns, but at least I won't have to sponsor the action.
By the way, I really don't care what your race and ancestral nationalities are. Neither should the Rahm Emanuel.

Sarkazein said...

A'mous-

Your questions have gone way passed the "just curious, what's the dealeo?"
What is your real reason or concern in this matter?
Why is it so important to you that I should not care that the government wants to keep a nose color count?

Anonymous said...

Sark: I respect and understand your personal desire to avoid actively participating in or paying for race-based fact-gathering or decision-making by the government. We're clear on that. But I still don't see, given the myriad different ways we have of gathering and sharing information, how the elimination of that single question from the census would (beyond providing a degree of personal distancing) in any way eliminate, alter or curb any government or political group actions and policies that you perceive to be either harmful or distasteful.

Anonymous said...

We were typing at the same time, obviously. My questions all relate to my premise that there would be no real-world advantage to eliminating the question, and I was hoping that someone could point out any to me. I accept that your personal comfort would improve if the question were gone, and I've stated that yours is a valid concern. But when it comes to changing the way government decisions are made through the use of race-based info, the census is not the end-all be-all for such information. Therefore, one cannot expect a simple question removal to do the trick.

Sarkazein said...

A'mous you wrote-"Therefore, one cannot expect a simple question removal to do the trick."


That is true, liberals will never quit using race as a wedge issue even if the question is removed.
So what?